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A good combo for 200ish HP? by Pillow on 20 Aug, 2009 10:46
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Updated Again, and again!
Just wondering what people here are putting together for a higher HP build.
I am kind of leaning this way, but not sure it will get the HP.
- 1.6TD block with oil squirters
- 1.5 crankshaft (polished as needed)
- 1.5 connecting rods reworked by RIMCO
- 1.5 pistons (sized for block)
- 1.9 AAZ head (flows and lower compression)
- Lightened and reworked intermediate shaft
- PD150 intake manifold
- TDI Parts 2.5" Intake Manifold flange kit
- Schrick baffled aluminum oil pan with windage tray
- Stock solid lifter camshaft from a 1.5/1.6
- Redline 5500 RPM
- Giles custom pump good for 6000RPM
- ARP hardware
- KS bearings German (the best IMO)
- Stock HD oil pump 36mm
- Metal head gasket.
- 3" exhaust with no muffler.
- Synapse external wastegate
- ATA Intercooler
- Long Oil cooler on a sandwich t-stat
- Full gauges to monitor the meltdown! LOL
- 30-40 PSI delivered from a HY-25
- Tubular exhaust manifold
- GTI close ratio 5-speed tranny AUG.
- CIS car gas tank with feeder pump.
Points I might be missing:
- Eliminate vacuum pump
- the 1.5 will never pump enough air to make that HP
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Just let me know!
This is a for a MK1 Jetta Coupe Diesel.
Thanks! -
#1 by Rabbit on Roids on 20 Aug, 2009 11:04
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i was going to do this exact build. a 1.5/6/9 hybrid engine. i think the bottom end would be awesome if we could hold a head on it. you wont need a cam. the gains you get off a cam wont be worth the money. otherwise we would all be runnin expensive diesel performance cams they quit making years ago. i would do 3" straight pipes on it. the pistons wont break dude, ive already ran 40psi to stock 1.5 pistons. and with a huge turbo, you wont have enough boost at low rpms to do *** to your rods. and why wont the 1.5 move enough air? you are putting an AAZ head on it. thats what makes the heads better than the 1.5 or 1.6 head. and if i were you i would NOT run an HX35. i would run either a HX25 or some sort of VNT. VNTS are the friggen ***.
and as for your wanting to put a GTI close ratio trans in there, DO IT! everyone else on here will tell you to stay away from close ratio gasser trannys. i love mine, i have an AUG (everyones least favorite) in my rabbit with my 1.5TD, and it never drops down under 10 psi boost between shifts. i had a FF in there for a minute, and hated it. the AUG makes it so much more fun and more sporty feeling.
if you go with the 1.5 rotating assembly in the turbo block, just remember that you are going to have to probably bore out the td block to the first oversize. and oversized pistons for a 1.5 are extremely hard to find. i have a set of 0.50 over pistons for a 1.5, but i need a set of 1mm over to build my 1.5/1.6 since my turbo block is already at the first over bore and pretty well worn at that.
oh yea, for a lift pump, im running a little cheapo napa auto parts electric fuel pump. you know, the kind that shake when you turn them on? tic tic tic..... works well for a primer system too. ive never had a dry start on my rabbit. i need one on my audi now... it loses prime sometimes when the fuel level gets too low.
any more questions? im on here alot, and theres plenty of other ppl you can talk too. sauerkraut has built or was thinking about building one of these engines too if i remember correctly. -
#2 by RabbitJockey on 20 Aug, 2009 14:17
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if ur going to run a giant holset you'd want a hy35 not an hx35. but like he said a giant holset is too big, it will work and make big numbers eventually, but an hy25 should be able to handle 200hp.
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#3 by rabbid79 on 20 Aug, 2009 16:52
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It would be nice to have JE pistons, but JE won't make diesel pistons. I'm not sure why, but they won't. Like Roids said, even stock cast pistons are pretty durable. It's not uncommon to see cast pistons in gas applications making over 200HP/Liter.
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#4 by Pillow on 20 Aug, 2009 20:41
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Great feedback guys! I will update the top "Build" portion accordingly to have a master plan that maybe others can use as well.
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#5 by rabbid79 on 20 Aug, 2009 22:14
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1.9 heads use "D" shaped intake ports. You can either customize a 1.6 manifold to fit, or buy a TDI manifold which already has the "D" ports. Probably one of the best flowing factory turbo diesel manifolds is from the PD-150 TDI engine. I think I've seen them for sale in the classifieds on this forum. If you have the room for a gas intake manifold, you should look at one from a G60 engine as I understand they flow pretty well. You would still need to modify the port shape to match the head.
If you have lots of money to burn, you could also do a turbo exhaust header. Although the 1.9 head is better, the exhaust ports on all of these engines is still really bad. The header could help out it that regard.
If it's not too much work to install, you may want to consider using an in-tank pump from a gas version of your car. You could probably run it at 10% duty cycle or something to lower the pressure, and the fit and finish would be spot-on.
Of course, high quality bearings such as Kolbenschmidt or Mahle/Clevite Tri-metal should be installed. Probably should polish the crank, and polish and shotpeen those rods. The intermediate shaft bearings should be replaced, and the shaft itself should probably be machined to lose a few extra pounds. You may want to go to a Schrick baffled aluminum oil pan to keep oil in place and help dissipate some of that heat. Also use a windage tray to cut down on that parasitic drag when you start turning 6000 RPM. -
#6 by myke_w on 21 Aug, 2009 05:47
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All good info
I'm curious why the 1.5 internals? Shorter stroke? Since I swore off 1.5's a long time ago I really don't remember what then dimensional differences are. Are the pistons taller?1.9 heads use "D" shaped intake ports. You can either customize a 1.6 manifold to fit, or buy a TDI manifold which already has the "D" ports. Probably one of the best flowing factory turbo diesel manifolds is from the PD-150 TDI engine. I think I've seen them for sale in the classifieds on this forum. If you have the room for a gas intake manifold, you should look at one from a G60 engine as I understand they flow pretty well. You would still need to modify the port shape to match the head.
If you have lots of money to burn, you could also do a turbo exhaust header. Although the 1.9 head is better, the exhaust ports on all of these engines is still really bad. The header could help out it that regard.
If it's not too much work to install, you may want to consider using an in-tank pump from a gas version of your car. You could probably run it at 10% duty cycle or something to lower the pressure, and the fit and finish would be spot-on.
Of course, high quality bearings such as Kolbenschmidt or Mahle/Clevite Tri-metal should be installed. Probably should polish the crank, and polish and shotpeen those rods. The intermediate shaft bearings should be replaced, and the shaft itself should probably be machined to lose a few extra pounds. You may want to go to a Schrick baffled aluminum oil pan to keep oil in place and help dissipate some of that heat. Also use a windage tray to cut down on that parasitic drag when you start turning 6000 RPM. -
#7 by Rabbit on Roids on 21 Aug, 2009 08:19
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pistons are longer than 1.6 stuff. pretty sure. rod is shorter and piston is longer. and its enough that they wont swap between engines.
but why does everyone hate 1.5's? i think they are a great motor, ive had great luck with both of mine. maybe i just have had a couple spectacular engines. -
#8 by myke_w on 21 Aug, 2009 08:37
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why does everyone hate 1.5's? i think they are a great motor, ive had great luck with both of mine. maybe i just have had a couple spectacular engines.
I don't like the fact that they crack the block in the head bolt bosses (like all 11mm stud motors)
the 1.6 is far less prone to doing that, so I stick with it.
I'm glad to hear the bore is the same. I never even really paid attention
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#9 by Rabbit on Roids on 21 Aug, 2009 08:39
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thats why you take the 1.5 rotating parts and throw then in a turbo block. instant REAL 1.5 TD.
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#10 by Pillow on 21 Aug, 2009 09:16
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Updated again with the great info!
Right now the questions are mainly:
- Solid or hydro valve and cam compatibility and cam choices over the years.
- Tubular exhaust header options.
- Vacuum pump delete options?
- BOV delete for sure. (why VW put one on a diesel is beyond me - silly)
I will research the G60 intake options as well.
I suspect the 1.5s rod ratio has all to do with its ability to rev more effectively than the 1.6, but I would have to run the numbers on it... Which I have not done that calculation in a while
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#11 by Rabbit on Roids on 21 Aug, 2009 12:58
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Updated again with the great info!
Right now the questions are mainly:
- Solid or hydro valve and cam compatibility and cam choices over the years.
- Tubular exhaust header options.
- Vacuum pump delete options?
- BOV delete for sure. (why VW put one on a diesel is beyond me - silly)
I will research the G60 intake options as well.
I suspect the 1.5s rod ratio has all to do with its ability to rev more effectively than the 1.6, but I would have to run the numbers on it... Which I have not done that calculation in a while
why do you have to run numbers to know that it will effectively spin more rpms? the piston speed is so much slower on a 1.5 engine. they spin up nicely. my 1.6td was dog*** compared to my 1.5's
i would run a solid lifter cam, people say they grunt harder, and they do, there is no oil to adjust the valve clearance. i would rather mechanically adjust my valves anyway. and pretty much, a diesel cam is a diesel cam for 1.5's and 1.6's turbo and n/a even have the same cam.
and you can use any gasser intake as an improvement over a stock one. i used one off a 92 jetta w/ a 1.8 litre 8v engine. it has runners that are just as big as the G60 manifold, they are just a little longer and the manifold is shaped a little different. but it all fits. and remember, you gotta flip your turbo to use a gasser intake. -
#12 by Pillow on 22 Aug, 2009 12:36
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Update again!
Does flipping the turbo mean that I need to re-angle the engine? Or is there enough room to make it work without hitting the firewall? I have heard this might be an issue... Might depend on the header as well.
I have decided to try the 8v intake for a better flow. Granted I doubt it is a cost savings at all! I will probably have to get the ends welded up so that I can hog them out for the "D" ports matching. Not to mention a collar made for the join for the pressure pipe. Fun times. I think the longer intake runners will help the flow especially under big boost.
Still researching a vacuum pump delete scenario. Power brakes are overrated!
More to come!
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#13 by Rabbit on Roids on 22 Aug, 2009 12:42
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flippin the mani does nothing for interference. you have to grind down some parts that hit tho.
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#14 by Pillow on 22 Aug, 2009 14:19
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Update.
I found a picture of the PD150 intake... It looks good enough and is a bolt on. Seems like smart time and money to me.