SDI Intake Manifold Installation

[VWRacer]

Hey Jake!

There is a great thread over on the TDI Forum (click here), authored by TDIMeister, detailing the installation of an SDI intake manifold on his TDI.

Enjoy!

Stan

[TDIMeister]

Hey Jake!

There is a great thread over on the TDI Forum (click here), authored by TDIMeister, detailing the installation of an SDI intake manifold on his TDI.

Enjoy!

Stan

Sorry, should have cross-posted here too...  :oops:  

[fspGTD]

Awesome - thanks for the note - looking forward to hearing an update after you get the quirks worked out, IE: how it changes the RPM powerband, and also hopefully some pictures.  Got a measurement on the SDI manifold runner lengths?

[TDIMeister]

Got a measurement on the SDI manifold runner lengths?

By my estimation, darn close to 2 to 2-1/2 of my size 10 feet, including port length :lol:

Sorry, I didn't take any pics as I was real busy under the hood, but photos WERE taken by others and I'm eagerly awaiting to see them myself.

The manifold met my expectations of what I wanted it to do.  Smoke out the tailpipe appears to be noticeably reduced at WOT, and steady cruise at 75 MPH has boost at 4.5 PSI when it used to be around 6 PSI.  These two factors tell me the engine is getting more air mass flow overall without more boost through better volumetric efficiency.  Nothing was done to fuelling rate, so no, seat-of-the-pants is not significantly different, nor was that ever expected.  What this manifold HAS allowed is more fuelling without smoke.

A couple of unresolved, relatively minor issues were listed in the aforementioned link.  I don't see much impeding these from being ironed-out in the very near future.


Cheers,
Dave

[fspGTD]

Got a measurement on the SDI manifold runner lengths?

By my estimation, darn close to 2 to 2-1/2 of my size 10 feet, including port length :lol:

Sorry, I didn't take any pics as I was real busy under the hood, but photos WERE taken by others and I'm eagerly awaiting to see them myself.

The manifold met my expectations of what I wanted it to do.  Smoke out the tailpipe appears to be noticeably reduced at WOT, and steady cruise at 75 MPH has boost at 4.5 PSI when it used to be around 6 PSI.  These two factors tell me the engine is getting more air mass flow overall without more boost through better volumetric efficiency.  Nothing was done to fuelling rate, so no, seat-of-the-pants is not significantly different, nor was that ever expected.  What this manifold HAS allowed is more fuelling without smoke.

A couple of unresolved, relatively minor issues were listed in the aforementioned link.  I don't see much impeding these from being ironed-out in the very near future.


Cheers,
Dave

Very good!  So those long runners are now probably sucking the air right out of the turbo's compressor outlet?    The reduced boost pressure for constant cruise setting is a very encouraging sign indeed!  What RPM do you cruise at 75 MPH at?

I was hoping for a total intake manifold runner length from head to plenum of about 2 feet.  Sounds like this SDI manifold might be just the ticket!

I hope someone got some shots of it, I especially want to see how much room it leaves atop the injection pump.  This is where I think the LDA device on an IDI motor might stick up a lot farther than a TDI injection pump.

[TDIMeister]

What RPM do you cruise at 75 MPH at?

Dr. Diesel will be REALLY jealous...  :lol:  :wink:  2550 RPM.

[type53b_gtd]

Dr. Diesel will be REALLY jealous...   2550 RPM.

Heh heh - you have to love Passat and A3 TDIs for that.  The gearing in my Jetta is silly tall.  On a recent trip to Ottawa we were cruising at around 145km/h (~90mph) - and the tach was just north of 3k (3100ish IIRC.)

[Blades]

Dr. Diesel will be REALLY jealous...   2550 RPM.

Heh heh - you have to love Passat and A3 TDIs for that.  The gearing in my Jetta is silly tall.  On a recent trip to Ottawa we were cruising at around 145km/h (~90mph) - and the tach was just north of 3k (3100ish IIRC.)

I'm stuck in Dr.D's world .... 3900 @ 120km/h

Redline at 147km/h

[type53b_gtd]

I'm stuck in Dr.D's world .... 3900 @ 120km/h

Redline at 147km/h

Ouch.   The Scirocco GTD has a 7A gearbox - .71 fifth on a 3.94 final drive - not quite as tall as an early FF with .71 fifth, but still pretty decent.  I'm turning 3 grand at 120, and I run out of steam (and head gasket) at 175.

[fspGTD]

What RPM do you cruise at 75 MPH at?

Dr. Diesel will be REALLY jealous...  :lol:  :wink:  2550 RPM.

Thanks for the info!  It was on this thread in the old forum that I did some intake manifold runner length calculations (with Stan's help) applied to my 1.6lTD:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/4037/t/683/p/2

A table I came up with from that thread:

air temp = 122 deg. F (1182.6 ft/s)
runner length: 23.0" 23.5" 24.0" 24.5" 25.0"
Tuned RPM RV=2 5683 5582 5484 5390 5299
Tuned RPM RV=3 3788 3721 3656 3593 3533
Tuned RPM RV=4 2841 2791 2742 2695 2650

air temp = 68 deg. F (1126 ft/s)
runner length: 23.0" 23.5" 24.0" 24.5" 25.0"
Tuned RPM RV=2 5413 5316 5223 5134 5047
Tuned RPM RV=3 3608 3544 3482 3422 3365
Tuned RPM RV=4 2706 2658 2612 2567 2524

Note that for runner length, I have already subtracted out the 4" runner length that is inside the head. So those are the runner lengths of just the intake manifold.

I can see the cam timing being a little bit different on the TDI than the 1.6lTD, and also there is a margin for error (theory may leave out a tangible effect for example wave speed might be different one direction vs the other in flowing gas)  But anyway... at your 75mph cruise and 2550 RPM, I am guessing you are closest to the 4th reflected value peak.  According to Stan (and you might know more about this too) the 3rd and 2nd RV are even more powerful than the 4th, and I would plan on being able to use the 2nd and 3rd RVs in addition to the 4th.  So it is very encouraging to see you got such a tangible benefit at only the 4th RV!  Can't wait to see what the 3rd RV is like from your testing at higher RPMs.    I wouldn't expect your motor to be able to wind high enough to see the 2nd RV though.

My main goal is to beef up my motor's powerband in the the power band in the 2500-3200rpm area, which is before the turbo has fully kicked in making peak boost pressure, in order to broaden the usable RPM range of my motor down lower.  Any benefits given by the 3rd and 2nd RV will be icing on the cake.  

FYI: Here is a G-tech plot of my motor's hp and torque curves, to give you a feel for what the power characteristic is like:


Are you planning on doing any G-tech or dyno testing?  Did you get any baseline results by chance?

[fspGTD]

Got a measurement on the SDI manifold runner lengths?

By my estimation, darn close to 2 to 2-1/2 of my size 10 feet, including port length :lol:

If so, expanding on your estimation, the length of your feet is 10 2/3".  (according to: http://www.boot.com/bsizcvt.htm#SizeTable ).  That would put the total runner length at 21.33" to 26.66".

Assuming you mean including the length of the port inside the head?  If so, and and assuming the length of the port inside the head is 4" in the TDI like I estimated in the 1.6l IDI head, that would give manifold runner length to head-manifold interface length of 17.33" to 22.66".

Hard to say with precision, but it's at least ballpark close to the 22-26" target that I am shooting for.  (Yeah OK, could probably have told that just from looking at the pictures, I know...   )

[fspGTD]

I just noticed that there are pictures on the TDIForum thread showing this manifold installed now; nice.

[BlackTieTD]

i still can't believe dave got it all buttoned up and drove it home that day!!!  :lol:

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quote from TDIclub:
Is the blue "goop" along the seam of the plastic runners and plenum part of the factory piece or was it added to fix air leaks?
----

i was checking that manifold out and i didnt notice the blue goop. fairly certain that was added to fill air leaks. (i was suspect of the unit holding boost..)

[Dr. Diesel]

What RPM do you cruise at 75 MPH at?

Dr. Diesel will be REALLY jealous...  :lol:  :wink:  2550 RPM.

Not for long!!  Peloquin'd ASF tranny w/ 100mm flanges, 3.67 r&p, and .71 5th! Can't wait!

[TDIMeister]

i still can't believe dave got it all buttoned up and drove it home that day!!!  :lol:

Hard to believe, but true

----
quote from TDIclub:
Is the blue "goop" along the seam of the plastic runners and plenum part of the factory piece or was it added to fix air leaks?
----

i was checking that manifold out and i didnt notice the blue goop. fairly certain that was added to fill air leaks. (i was suspect of the unit holding boost..)

No, it wasn't there originally, but the goop was applied just an experiment to trace IF there was a boost leak through the seams of the moulded manifold halves.  There doesn't seem to be any... so I believe it's holding up under boost.  I meet with Gerry again this weekend to see if we can put this one to bed.

In the final analysis, was it worth the $327 US?  HP per dollar, no.  I'd sooner install an FMIC or a modded pump, or bigger injectors, or an after market cam, or custom chiptuning.  But I knew from the very outset that the HP gains from this manifold in and of itself would be negligable.

Jake, if you're looking for real gains in your ride, class rules permitting, I'd sooner adapt a VNT-turbo into your car and get a Giles pump.  Can you put modded / bigger injectors into an IDI motor like you can on the TDIs?


Dave