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Turn American economy around?
by
ObscuredByClouds
on 17 Jul, 2009 07:04
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What if Obama gave "bailouts" to automakers only if they make diesel passenger vehicles that ran on biofuels? Why doesn't Obama give money to farmers to grow biofuels? We can conclusively cut our reliance on OPEC and at the same time get stronger
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#1
by
maxfax
on 17 Jul, 2009 08:31
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It's more lucrarive for the government to subsadize tobacco that can later be taxed to the end user, pay for thousands of acres to remain un used so that crops from other countries can be taxed upon import, and of course the tax on non bio fuel is a bit higher too...
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#2
by
fdnyguy
on 17 Jul, 2009 10:08
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God can only imagine what Gov't will do with 2 car companies, let alone doing anything with fuels..
As for diesel, with gas prices so low compared to a year ago, it will be hard to convince people to go diesel. And with the GM debacle in the 80's with the 5.7, and to change the old adage that diesels are not loud, slow and smoky, it will be very hard to convince the general public that diesel is the way to go.
No one more than me would love to see the western world tell OPEC where to shove their oil reserves. Yet we fight over the Alaskan land and offshore drilling as ways to reduce our dependency. Can't have it both ways. But America has yet to learn it.
So the obvious answer would be use less. Or going with biofuels. I bought a biodiesel processor a few years ago, and had numerous conversations with Josh Tickell, author of "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" when out on the West Coast, back in 2004. I only questioned his estimate of 11,000 sq miles of desert to be used to reduce America's dependency. I estimated 20,000 sq miles of desert land to be made into algae collecting ponds, using 2,000 gallons of fuel per acre, possibly more. This higher estimate was for ALL fuel usage, not just diesel. Glad to see Josh was ahead of everyone with algae.
Regardless of the estimates, something has to be done to reduce our dependency on foreign (and fossil) fuels. Hybrids have more of a carbon footprint than any diesel on the road, yet is heralded as a savior. On the Long Island Expressway, only hybrids can use the HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes with driver only, yet my 09 TDI CLEAN diesel is not. Go figure.
While not a fan of the current President, I really have not seen much on anything fuel wise except the incentives to trade in clunkers for newer cars. While a step in the right direction, we need to do MUCH more on fuel conservation and dependency. My 09 and 89 Jettas help a little bit.....lolol. But i have not read much on this Administration's efforts to do encourage alternative fuels, just the 'trade in' program. And STRONGLY pursuing the ASTM standard for biofuels so ALL diesels can use them without worrying about mechanical/warranty problems.
Algae, Jatropha, WVO conversion to biodiesel can be great for both the economy, the planet, and National Security. While not fully read up on algae, has anyone here done more research and know if algae is a 'pure' oil that can be cracked into gasoline (and other petroleum derivatives) as well? Even with jatropha plants reported to use copious amounts of water, it can also grow sufficiently with salt water. Though this can be discussed at a later time, IMO it is still a better way to get fuel than being held hostage by a bunch of desert dirtbags who hate the western world, but love it's money.
As for my Canadian VW Brothers, anything going on that spot your way with all the oil in the sand (Alberta?)? I do recall that oil would have to reach $95 a barrel to make retrieving it profitable. Guess that isn't going on anytime soon with oil below $95.
I know you guys pay a lot more than us (I paid $2.75 a gallon and was happy.. roughly 70 cents a litre). Seeing how many of the VW diesel guys here are from north of the border, with your fuel prices I can see why you love your diesels.
Anyway, I'm off the soapbox.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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#3
by
maxfax
on 17 Jul, 2009 13:06
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The solution: Stop turning to the governemnt for a solution, get up, get dirty, and start being the solution yourself...
And I think most of us here at this forum are following just that... Let's face it, I know our VW diesels are cool, fun to drive, last forever, but how many of us would be such fanatics over them if say they only got 25mpg and wouldn;t run on alternative fuels so easily??? Sorry, I'd be driving my Crown Vic everywhere, much more comfortable...
The motto from years past really needs to be drilled back into the majority of people. "Do Without"
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#4
by
Turbinepowered
on 17 Jul, 2009 15:11
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The solution: Stop turning to the governemnt for a solution, get up, get dirty, and start being the solution yourself...
And I think most of us here at this forum are following just that... Let's face it, I know our VW diesels are cool, fun to drive, last forever, but how many of us would be such fanatics over them if say they only got 25mpg and wouldn;t run on alternative fuels so easily??? Sorry, I'd be driving my Crown Vic everywhere, much more comfortable...
The motto from years past really needs to be drilled back into the majority of people. "Do Without"
And about as fun to drive as a sack of mashed potatoes. Ew, Crown Vic.
I started driving VWs because they were awesome, easy to work on, and so simple to upgrade. I moved to VW diesels for the absurd simplicity of operation and the incredible fuel economy. I'd probably still be driving VWs even if the diesels were poor performers.
I recall something my grandfather used to say: "If you don't have it, find someone who does. If nobody has it, make it. If you can't make it, live without it. Problem solving, if you can do that you can survive."
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#5
by
jtanguay
on 17 Jul, 2009 18:20
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i think people need to start worrying more about what the future holds... theres a huge *** storm brewing over in the middle east, and i'm sure bio fuel is the least of Obama's worries.
but i'm in complete agreeance that hybrids are worse than the new clean diesels. even though my parents have the new toyota hybrid and its really cool and all... lol. but the battery side of it really is the deciding factor. plus what about winter time when the car requires some 30,000 BTU's of heat just to keep warm??? hybrids are better suited for the warmer climates...
i've long thought of a diesel hybrid that is like no other. it would be a diesel hydraulic. the transmission would be hydraulic in the sense that it would use a pump with a flow valve to control how much pressure goes to the wheels using hydraulic drive, and how much is bled back into the system. there would also be a few high pressure accumulators present to store kinetic energy for those quick spurts (in which the engine could actually shut off, yet the car could still accelerate up to speed and kick the engine back on
) and the best part is that since it is fluid, it will provide an even smoother driving experience than one of those variable transmissions. no expensive batteries here, and no expensive transmissions to break. but hopefully the hoses don't
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#6
by
Turbinepowered
on 17 Jul, 2009 23:02
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#7
by
Patrick
on 18 Jul, 2009 03:51
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Just looked at a DVD from a guy who calls himself "innovative solutions" Built a diesel/hydraulic motorcycle....... Way cool! Viseo is really dry, but explains the whole system. Gave it back already. Got it from a guy who likes my truck (354 perkins in a 1988 4 door GMC). He drives an old ford with a Perkins, and runs all his diesels on 50%!!!!! waste engine oil. Wants to do a truck with this variable hydraulic drive setup he saw on the bike in the video.
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#8
by
maxfax
on 18 Jul, 2009 04:02
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And about as fun to drive as a sack of mashed potatoes. Ew, Crown Vic.
Actually I;ve found it to be more fun to drive than any VW either old new diesel or gas.. It's a PI model though, Ford didn;t screw around on those.. Civilian models, well sack of potatoes is being nice... People sure get the heck outta my way
Now as for economy, well if I could tow as much with the VW as I can with teh Vic, I wouldn;t have the vic..
i've long thought of a diesel hybrid that is like no other. it would be a diesel hydraulic.
I've been harping that too!!! Imagine the milage they'd get coupling a TDI with what's currently available on the Hybrid market.. It's funny you mention the hydraulic trans too... Years ago I came across an article about just such a thing..
Back in the early 80's a fellow built an impressive driveline all based on hydraulic drive and accumulators.. Built it in a lowly 200cid Granada.. Engine throttle was somehow controlled by hydraulic pressure, and speed was controlled by a valve.. The engine rpm generally stayed between idle and 2000.. On decelleration instead of engine braking or brakes the hydraulic pressure would be built up in an accumulator, on acceleration the accumulator would dump to the hydro motor.. Even though this rig was bulky, expensive, and had tons of bugs, he could manage mpg's in the high 20's both city and highway..
The idea was pretty much scrapped when the accumulator exploded during some hard braking down a mountain. Blew the trunk right off the thing, he probably should have left some sort of other braking on the car.. Of course when the accumulator blew there was no other braking on the car.. The collision darn near killed him..
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#9
by
jtanguay
on 18 Jul, 2009 07:50
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with modern technology and the improvements with hydraulic technology, i don't think hooking up a system would be too heavy. maybe the weight of two transmissions? definitely not as heavy as an electric hybrid setup IMO.
as for the accumulators blowing, he should have had a pressure diverter valve, set at 2,000 psi or so, so it fills one accumulator, and then goes on to the next (this is where a properly setup system comes in handy, with particular attention paid to cooling the hydraulic fluid). i'm thinking about 4 accumulators should do the trick. when all 4 accumulators are full and the car is idling, the engine automatically shuts off, but is still in running mode. when all 4 accumulators are full and the car is decelerating, engine braking could be used by reversing the flow of hydraulic drive motor. of course there would need to be a special button to press for a mode like this, such as they have on hybrids. my dads camry has a B mode (actuated with the shifter) which is simply engine braking which is so cool. when going down a large hill it gives brake assisting while charging the batteries at the same time, which saves on brake pads.
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#10
by
maxfax
on 18 Jul, 2009 09:01
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I definitely agree.. I gotta root around and see if I can find that article and scan it... Most all of the plans, spects, etc were in it.. This particular setup was very crude at best.. Built by a maintenance man for some variety of production facility.. Most of his parts were discards from his job.. The principal was great, but the live rendition wasn't so much... With better stuff available now the weight wouldn;t be too bad at all.. Accumulators would be the bulkiest part, but with some creative shaping could be tucked away under some body panels.... All put together in a single compact unit there realistically wouldn't be that many more places to leak than on most auto transmissions we have...
Your idea of mulitiple accumulators woudl be the ticket.. The one huge single accumulator doesn't leave much room for variations.. Or in the case of the Grenade room for safety.. Of course for a system built from scavenged parts it did actually both move the car and improve the milage...
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#11
by
jtanguay
on 18 Jul, 2009 14:41
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the part i really like is being able to keep the engine at or near its peak torque band to really get the wheels moving
smoke would be cut down as well. it could be run like a generator, with a special governor to keep the rpm's stable, and for it to shut off when the accumulators are full. i also really like the idea of going to my car, turning the key and hearing nothing... then pull out of my driveway while the engine kicks on from the hydraulic system. no more starters or starter problems woohoo
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#12
by
burn_your_money
on 18 Jul, 2009 15:51
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when all 4 accumulators are full and the car is decelerating, engine braking could be used by reversing the flow of hydraulic drive motor.
That won't work. By doing this you would be spinning the wheels backwards. You need to limit the amount of flow to the hydraulic motors. When dealing with hydraulic motors, flow is speed and pressure is torque. I think using variable-displacement swashplate pumps for the motors would be ideal because the engine would only have to run at a single RPM and could be tuned for maximum economy.
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#13
by
fdnyguy
on 18 Jul, 2009 17:18
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The solution: Stop turning to the governemnt for a solution, get up, get dirty, and start being the solution yourself...
And I think most of us here at this forum are following just that... Let's face it, I know our VW diesels are cool, fun to drive, last forever, but how many of us would be such fanatics over them if say they only got 25mpg and wouldn;t run on alternative fuels so easily??? Sorry, I'd be driving my Crown Vic everywhere, much more comfortable...
The motto from years past really needs to be drilled back into the majority of people. "Do Without"
I rented a crown vic in Texas last year. Doing the speed limit (sometimes 80) I still at times was averaging 26-30 mpg.
Obviously, around town is a killer.
Would it be nice to have a diesel in it? And other options mentioned above to get awesome mileage? Without a doubt.
But convincing the general public to go diesel is a VERY tough fight.
Odd how about 10 years ago, Jeep was putting a Perkins TD in their European Jeeps. Or a Grand Caravan with a 3.3 TD. Even the PT Cruiser over there with a TD (saw it on Ebay). But not here, until the Jeep option a few years ago. Now we see MB. BMW,VW, and talk of Subaru and Cadillac looking into diesel as well. Bring it on!!!
You're right. Government can't do it all. But a total swing to diesel or any alternative fuels with gasoline kind of affordable at the present time will be a tough fight.
One reason I'm keeping my 89 is the WVO/Biodiesel option.
I won't risk that in a 2009 VW TDI. Fossil fuels are running out. When? Who really knows? But now is the time for America to show world leadership in the alternative fuels. To see other countries already heavy on solar, wind, and tidal (Netherlands, I think). I have read reports where the Atlantic Gulf Stream could provide massive amounts of energy. There was even talk of similar systems in the East River between Manhattan and Brooklyn.
Like they say, S**t or get off the pot. I really do not care what party is in office, I would love to see us like Brazil and be 100% independent of foreign fossil fuels.
Do without? Amen, Brother. But todays generation would riot if they were alloted 3 gallons a week for fuel and making other sacrifices like those made during WW II.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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#14
by
maxfax
on 18 Jul, 2009 21:01
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But convincing the general public to go diesel is a VERY tough fight.
Too many people still have the bad memories of the 80's.. Slowly now people are becoming educated that things have come a long way.. But now that gas is sort of on the cheap why change? It's easier to wait and complain when the price spikes again.... I'm guilty of that myself.. Didn;t drive the vic at all last summer, now I find myself jumping in it quite a bit...
Same goes with wind, solar, and all that kind of stuff.. I've looked into windmills and solar as I've been basically rebuilding my house.. It's alot of money and extra work up front, and it's going to take years to break even.. Even with any sort of tax incentives.. I got some funny looks at the bank when I was giving them figures for the loan.. However if there is a huge spike in energy costs I'm gonna be darn glad I'm doing it..