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Going roadtripping... guestion about veggie fuel.
by
rabbit_diesel
on 02 Jul, 2009 21:22
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I live in wisconsin and I'm taking a trip down to Tennesse next week. It's about a 2000 mile round trip. I just got my rebuilt diesel motor going in my NA '92 Jetta about two weeks ago and it's running excellent. I want to save money on fuel. I have some veggie oil that was poured off the top of many dressing containers because they were out of date and the store was throwing them away. Would it run on this? Would it ruin the IP?(I have a spare
) I have lots of experience with diesel engines, but I've never tried biodiesel or veggie oil. Please let me know what I should do. Thanks, John
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#1
by
SolarSteve
on 02 Jul, 2009 21:34
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It will run on it, but here are many risks assoiciated with it. If you simply pour the VO into your fuel tank, that is called single tanking. Many people single tank with VO, but sucessful ones either use very small ratios to diesel (D2) or blend the VO with other solvents like jet fuel or gasoline (RUG, regular unleaded). The other part is proper removing any water in the VO. If it is brand new, fresh from and unopened container, then the is no water present, but if the container has been previously opened or if it it is waste oil (WVO) it NEEDS to be filtered and de-watered in order to run safely.
If you really want to run VO or WVO and not hurt/destroy your motor you need to 2 tank your car, meaning (go to
www.frybrid.com) you need a second dedicated fuel system to run the WVO. This secondary system properly heats the VO to above 160F before injecting to burn properly in your engine.
There are no "free lunches". If this is something you are interested in I STRONGLY sugest you got the Frybrid site and start reading. Trying to burn anything but D2 in your diesel engine with out fully understanding what you are doing with result in major engine damage.
I have been running WVO in my 1991 1.6L N/A Jetta for 1 year/14,000k, I will be more than happy to help you if you would like, but you need to learn about it first before just dumping so VO into your tank.
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#2
by
maxfax
on 03 Jul, 2009 14:34
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X2.... You don;t want to see the end results of burning this stuff incorrectly.. It'll trash an engine real quick.. Alot have talked about blending, but I'm still a bit skeptical of that.. Funny thing is I haven;t head too many people's long term results of doing this to their VW..
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#3
by
SolarSteve
on 03 Jul, 2009 19:20
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Blending is pretty scetchy if you ask me. Running a 2 tank system is much better. There are MANY VW's that are/have been running WVO sucessfully for 100's of K's. Just goto
www.frybrid.com and look around. Plenty of MKII's, III's and IV's doing it.
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#4
by
maxfax
on 03 Jul, 2009 20:24
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I dabbled with blending early on on the old VW.. Awfully clattery and not so great power.. Economy suffered as well.. Sort of the same issue as blending gas with ethanol.. I'd be buying less diesel per fillup, but filling up more often..
The bigges issue I always considered was how central PA weather can vary wildy.. I could have a blend that works well for temps around 80 degrees, only to have the weather go cold and have several 40 degree days, with a tank full of sludge...
I also like having the backup diesel fuel system, things can happen, filters can plug, I can hit a button and keep motoring...
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#5
by
LoneWolf
on 04 Jul, 2009 00:30
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i pick up oil from a local takeaway, leave it to stand for a couple of weeks to let it settle, filter out the chunks, then straight in the tank with a bit of diesel to thin it, runs just the same as with 100% diesel, just smells a bit
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#6
by
maxfax
on 04 Jul, 2009 01:45
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How long have you been running this brew???
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#7
by
Jay
on 04 Jul, 2009 02:18
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When my derv broke down after 24 hours of owning her I had a mechanic come out to have a look.
Just above the fuel pickup housing there was loads of cooking oil, someone in the past had been running her on a mix and tbh I wasn't that shocked. I've now been running her on some Reddex fuel additive to clean the system.
I think it's great being able to run oil in our dervs, I most likely would if I didn't live in a posh enclosed area where my car is already the eldest by at least 10 yrs in the car park
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#8
by
maxfax
on 04 Jul, 2009 02:54
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SOmething else to consider when blending WVO with other stuff.. WVO reacts badly with glavanized steel.. Such as the inside of a fuel tank... It forms in to a gooey lumpy sort of substance that much like you described jay, plugs things up....
I'm pretty sure the inside of the tank on my MK1 is galvanized, not sure about this new fangled stuff...
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#9
by
Jay
on 04 Jul, 2009 03:06
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We found some horrible gooey stuff and the mechanic did look worried and though that may have been the problem at first, we got the car running with a bump start (towing car in 2nd and dropping the clutch) because there were loads of air bubbles
Still not had a problem again, but will change the fuel filter later today.
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#10
by
LoneWolf
on 04 Jul, 2009 10:28
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been running it since i got the car just over 2 years ago
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#11
by
92EcoDiesel Jetta
on 04 Jul, 2009 10:54
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My Mk II Jetta has a 13 gal plactic tank, perfect for the VO tank in a 2 tank system if I make an aux startup diesel tank. Do you think it's a bad idea (safety and liability wise) to put the aux diesel tank in the engine compartment? It'd go where the humongus windshield washer tank is.
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#12
by
ilikevwdiesel
on 04 Jul, 2009 11:01
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I've been blending WVO with stale gasoline from the local crusher for a couple years now. My blend is 4gal WVO, 3 qts of gasoline, and 1 oz of pure terpentine. It works ok above 40F. One thing I do is disconnect the temp sensor for the glow plug system, that makes the relay work on the timer only so I can glow the plugs as long as I want. I lose some mileage but for the price I don't care. I made a centrifuge to clean the oil, it works great.
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#13
by
molgrips
on 04 Jul, 2009 14:38
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I've run two or three tanks of fresh veg oil with no ill effects. Basically, your IDI will be fine on it - mine ran as normal. The risk in most diesels (being DI) is that oil contacts the cold(er) cylinder walls before burning where it gels, turning into that gummy stuff you get in your kitchen which in turn works its way past the piston rings into the engine oil. When enough gets in the engine oil a reaction suddenly occurs which when your engine cools down turns the engine oil into literally jelly. Then you try and start it next time and bang.
The IDI is not at risk from this since combustion is started in the swirl chamber and all that enters the cylinder is flaming oil rather than just plain veg oil. There's some debate as to whether or not the injector pump can handle pumping cold veg oil long term, but personally I think it'd be ok. After all the pressures are the same regardless of viscosity. In any case if you stick 5% petrol in there (as people used to do in winter) it makes it the same viscosity as diesel in the summertime (you need up to 15% in the winter which adversely affects power and ecomony).
There are a few other pitfalls to look out for tho. Soya oil for instance (which is very common) isn't so great because it breaks down at the temperatures present in the injectors and can cause this sort of carbon varnish that is really hard to move. Although I burned a fair amount of soya and when I pulled the injectors they were just a bit black with a dusting of normal coke.
I'd say go for it for two thousand miles. Use 20% dino diesel if you are nervous. Bear in mind a lot of horror stories are caused by people blaming drastic engine failures on veggie oil but forgetting that engines run on diesel also fail drastically
www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk is the best place to go I think. Oh and you MUST ensure the oil is clean and water free. To check if there's any water, put a teaspoon in a hot frying pan and see if it spits. Spitting means water.