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Are the smaller Ford diesels any good?
by
airhead
on 26 Jun, 2009 03:40
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A friend of mine is going to look at a Mondeo today (I dont know whether or not you guys in the US have that model), and its a diesel. What I wanted to know is, are the smaller Ford diesel engines around 2 litres any good? I know a lot of you will say the monster engines in your Ford pickups in America are good, but we don't have them in Europe really. I just wanted to do a bit of research before going to see this car with him today.
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#1
by
fdnyguy
on 26 Jun, 2009 08:56
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A friend of mine is going to look at a Mondeo today (I dont know whether or not you guys in the US have that model), and its a diesel. What I wanted to know is, are the smaller Ford diesel engines around 2 litres any good? I know a lot of you will say the monster engines in your Ford pickups in America are good, but we don't have them in Europe really. I just wanted to do a bit of research before going to see this car with him today.
While not one of the diesel experts on this board, IMO the European diesels seem to be strong, economical and durable. With fuel prices slowly creeping up (imagine that!!! LOL), people will start looking at mpg instead of HP. Ford will be bringing the Fiesta (their world car) over to the States, but without that 60+mpg turbo diesel engine. With the American automobile industry in such dire straits (Ford is roughing it, but has not taken taxpayer dollars), to bring over a TD with power and economy should be a no-brainer. But they will only bring over the gasoline model, which still is not bad at 40+ mpg.
While American emissions are tougher, I think, it is odd to see TD's in Jeeps, Dodge Caravans and Chrysler PT cruisers, to name a few American cars over there. Either or, I'll keep my VW diesels and be happy..........
No doubt on of the diesel experts here can get more technical than me.
Good luck on your search.
Stay safe, stay well.Jimmy.
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#2
by
bajacalal
on 27 Jun, 2009 17:13
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The diesel engine might be good but how does the rest of the Ford hold up over there?
Do you see many 5-10 year old Ford cars on the road?
I've long thought that America builds great large vehicles but sucks at making an economical car that people who appreciate their cars would actually want to buy. Of course, the Mondeo sold there (which I think is a Contour here) is likely to be substantially different from its U.S. market counterparts.
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#3
by
Turbinepowered
on 27 Jun, 2009 19:20
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The diesel engine might be good but how does the rest of the Ford hold up over there?
Do you see many 5-10 year old Ford cars on the road?
I've long thought that America builds great large vehicles but sucks at making an economical car that people who appreciate their cars would actually want to buy. Of course, the Mondeo sold there (which I think is a Contour here) is likely to be substantially different from its U.S. market counterparts.
In thirty minutes' time I can put my hands on no less than twenty classic Escorts and early model Taurus that are still going strong 15 and almost twenty years down the road. (Okay, you have to cut out the 13 minutes' drive to get to the next city over, where they all reside. I live out in the sticks of SC. :p) (Well, sticks-ish.)
I still see old Festivas all the time, too.
The big problem is that the econobox cars are
abused by ninety percent of their owners. They're bought as cheap, A-B transportation that sees a lot of deferred maintenance and half-arsed work. When things break they get fixed, but only if they're necessary to keep the car on the road going from A to B. I am constantly
amazed at how well various manufacturers' small cars hold up over the years.
I just recently saw a first-generation Corolla wagon that looked
immaculate 
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#4
by
jtanguay
on 27 Jun, 2009 19:23
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with ford its a toss up. sometimes you get lemons... probably the worst problem with the older ones is oil burning, and then the engine seizes up. either that or head gasket problems. don't they make the engine for the Mazda's?
i think with new leadership, ford might come out strong. but their past mistakes are what turn me off though... like switching to a thinner gear oil to achieve better fuel mileage, but the part wears out prematurely, and right out of warranty.
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#5
by
maxfax
on 27 Jun, 2009 20:52
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Mazda actually makes engines for Ford.. And I'd be willing to bet the Mondeo (which is a ford Contour & Mazda 626) most likely is using a Mazda Diesel.. Back on the 80's Ford had Escorts, Tempos, and Ranger trucks with an optional non turbo diesel which was sources from Mazda..
I Belive the Mondeo has a 1.8L Turbodiesel in earlier years which is a derivitive of the Fiesta 1.6L Diesel.. Can tell you a whole lot about these as far as common problems, but over there in Europe they reated quite well if not better versus brands such as Peugot.. Starting in 2000 they got a 2.0L Commonrail Direct Injection Diesel with some variety of variable vane turbo...
Over here the Countour wasn;t a half bad car, but we had no diesel option..
They had some rust issues that would start in front of the rear wheels on the rocker panels (Look under the car at the back doors).. The CD4E Auto trans was a hit or miss proposition.. The filter could not be changed in this trans without dissassembly and most people just never bothered to change the fluid anyhow which cause most of the problem.. I would suspect that the diesel cars mostly got manuals transmissions (I hope!) Coil springs both front and rear were known to break from time to time (Acutally a problem on all Ford FWD Cars from the mid 90's to the early 00's) I suspect this was mostly due to our crappy roads, and just plain ole cheap springs... The susupension parts are not greasable (tie rods & ball joints) Generally they woudl last a bit pas 100,000 miles then start to fail..
Take bajacalal's advice and take notice to how many of these older cars are on the road yet.. And find out as much as you can about past maintenance to the car...
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#6
by
bajacalal
on 27 Jun, 2009 21:42
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Is this guy looking to buy a used Mondeo or a new one? It's true, the problem with many economy cars is their owners. A Mondeo really is not an econo-box though, in the sense that a Focus is. A Focus is really cheap crap IMHO, they just seem cheaply built, mostly plastic parts and not very well put together.
I guess I have a bias against American cars since I grew up here in SoCal. Nobody drives domestic cars here, if you see one on the road it's an out of state transplant. At bit of an exaggeration but there is a definite trend of imports here, it's where that whole thing started. The problem I have with American cars is that they just seem to drive like crap unless your just getting on the interstate. Put a heavy, doggy, pushrod v-6 in a FWD car with only an auto trans option, just no fun to drive on anything besides the interstates. Europe gets less of that and the big 3 seem to be getting away from this idea anyway.
I think Fords have the best interiors of U.S. cars but that company always seems to be using questionable ideas like putting the clutch slave cylinder inside the bellhousing so yes, a toss up.
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#7
by
maxfax
on 27 Jun, 2009 22:16
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but that company always seems to be using questionable ideas like putting the clutch slave cylinder inside the bellhousing so yes, a toss up.
They ALL do some dumb things from time to time.. Ford with their slave cylinders & goofey "quick" connects, GM and their plastic intake gaskets, Chrysler well Everything, Hyundai used to have 30K timing Belts, VW Diesels w/11mm head bolts, I could go on..
The question is, what is an American Car??? Ford's Smaller lineup is mostly sourced from their European divisions or Mazda.. GM sourcing from Izuzu, Suzuki, and their Opel division.. The earlier Kia Sefia was a Ford Contour, the American Festiva was built by Kia.. Sadly alot of these foreign sourced vehicles were "de-tuned" for us Americans that want comfort on the interstate and don;t care as much about handling or economy.. I find it funny that out of the 2 Fords, 3 Mercurys, one Oldsmobile, and a VW Rabbit I have registered, only one of those cars was acutaly built in the United Stated.. Anyone care to guess which one???
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#8
by
bajacalal
on 27 Jun, 2009 23:31
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Was it built in Pennsylvania?
I tell people that too about mine.
I agree with the point you brought up about "American" cars. Do you remember the early 90's when the big 3 seemed to be pushing "buy American" or else your doing a disservice to your country. They seem to be doing it again. Globalization has blurred the lines here like everywhere else. What is "American" and what is "import" when your "domestic" auto industry is taking their production elsewhere but the "imports" have built plants all over the U.S.?
BTW, I think that there was also a later 80's ranger diesel with a 2.3l Mitsubishi built TURBO engine. I met someone who had this engine in a truck but they are kind of scarce now. I had this idea to put this 2.3l td in... a
StarQuest. Apparently the engine blocks are similar much like with the VW engines.
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#9
by
maxfax
on 28 Jun, 2009 00:04
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At least it was built far enough from Lancaster County that I'm guessing no Amish worked on the line...
And yes I think the Ranger got the Mitsu diesel in 85 or 86... Rare as can be, been searching for years.. The 2.6 had a pretty tough bottom end as it was so I would not be in the least surpirsed it is simuilar to the diesel..
By the late 90's Ford was pushing that they were now a global company.. Had a fancy commercial and all.. Then when they realized they were going down the crapper by '05 the tune changed... ..
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#10
by
airhead
on 28 Jun, 2009 06:46
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Wasnt there a bid a few years back where VW tried to take over Ford? That would have been interesting.
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#11
by
bajacalal
on 28 Jun, 2009 09:10
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At least it was built far enough from Lancaster County that I'm guessing no Amish worked on the line...
You know, a car built by Amish workers might not be so bad... They tend to care about their work, grow up working with tools and really don't seem to mind dealing with the "real world" if it's good for business but they do want to keep their traditions at home. The whole "put the phone in the barn" thing... On the other hand, I've found notes like "Darryl was here in 1986" hidden in car doors, it makes me wonder how much that guy cared about quality.
Where have you been searching for this engine? They pop up on the west coast from time to time. And, do you use any tools like
http://www.CrazedList.org to search Craigslist over a broad area. Remember I went to Seattle from San Diego to get a VW turbo diesel. Too bad the Pacific Northwest is 3000 miles from you. My observation is that there are a lot of small diesels still on the road in the PNW, more than anywhere else in the U.S.
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#12
by
maxfax
on 29 Jun, 2009 01:45
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THe Amish do some fine craftmanship when it comes to carpendry and such, dunno if I woudl want them assembling my car.. I've seen alot of their handy work on tractors and such... I gotta say some of it is down right scarey.. There is this thing referred to as Amish theory, "If you don;t know any better it will work".. Doesn;t always hold true though...
I haven;t been searching a huge area, about 300 miles tops... Generally I use crazedlist, ebay, and I have subscriptions to a bunch of the local classifieds papers.. Trouble is, (Again with the Amish) the Amish like small diesel engines for power units... Alot of VW's got canablized for their engines because of this... The rest I imagine when the truck rusted apart people just figured it wasn;t worth anything and scrapped it...
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#13
by
bajacalal
on 29 Jun, 2009 10:47
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Well, at least the Amish are making use of these engines rather than them going to waste and being melted down. Maybe you could parts or an engine core from them if they aren't using it anymore.
A 25 year old pickup is not going to be in the best shape if it spent all those years in Pennsylvania, you're best bet would be to look farther south. How far south do you have to go before they mostly stop using salt on the roads, southern Virginia?
Besides the rust in your part of the country, I hear a lot of diesel pickups were exported from the U.S. There is actually a huge trade in used vehicles all over the world. Little diesel pickups have been sold for decades and have been quite popular in parts of Latin America (not in Mexico but Mexico does import used pickups from the U.S.). In the 1990's when diesels were not well liked here, people were making a business of buying and exporting them to Central America where the locals just wanted a reliable, economical pickup and don't care about it being slow, the roads are bad anyway.
Wow this thread has gone way off topic, I feel sorry for the original poster.
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#14
by
airhead
on 29 Jun, 2009 13:31
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Wow this thread has gone way off topic, I feel sorry for the original poster.
I dont mind at all. Its interesting for me really cause I had no idea how Americans regard diesel cars and what the popularity of them is like. Ive never been to the US. It sort of gives me a different perspective on cars in other parts of the world in a way.
Anyway, that Ford that my friend had his eye on was sold by the time he was ready to do a deal on it. He's going to look at a Citroen Xsara instead. I know Citroen diesels are very good.