using a td engine without the turbo - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• using a td engine without the turbo by Aaron R on 15 Jun, 2009 18:09
• I've just finished putting an '84 Jetta td engine in my '86 syncro van.  It is mounted at 15 degrees with a Kennedy adapter. My turbo is toast and I was going to use the engine without it untill I can afford to get another turbo.
  I have an exhaust mounted ( 4 into 1 Rabbit header ) and the td intake manifold.  Now the problem. When cruising on the highway everything seems fine until I get up to about 70 k then it seems like there is no more power. Plenty of pedal travell but if I push it down further there is a lot of black smoke and no speed increase. Does anyone have any input?
  
  Are td and na fuel pumps the same?
  I have an intake manifold and airbox from an na engine. Would that be a better choice?
  
  Also the Jetta worked perfect except when the turbo started leaking oil into the intake, but the car was taken off the road at that point.
  
  Thanks for any help
  
                  Aaron
• #1 by Otis2 on 15 Jun, 2009 18:29
• So effectively you are running a 1.6 NA Vanagon Syncro.
  
  Yikes.
  
  No surprise that you are complaining about lack of power.  
  
  Also no surprise you are running a lot of black smoke, as the injection pump is currently set up to accomodate the turbo.  NA and TD pumps are not the same.
  
  You are probably running very high EGTs, potentially enough to do damage.
  
  Really, you're probably best to park it until you can afford to get a turbo back on it.  A 1.6 NA Syncro would be a really annoying vehicle to drive, not even considering your EGT problem.
• #2 by diesel smoke on 15 Jun, 2009 18:33
• TD & NA injector pumps are not the same. A diesel engine is pretty gutless at the top end without a turbo, especially when it's pushing around a brick of a Syncro Vanagon. Put a good turbo back on it and you should be good to go.
• #3 by 8v-of-fury on 15 Jun, 2009 19:05
• Does it only smoke when already cruising and flooring it? Does it smoke under normal acceleration?
  
  Lay off the pedal, keep out of the smoke and you will keep your EGT's at an ok level. It will be slow as hell, but atleast it will get you around.
• #4 by 8v-of-fury on 15 Jun, 2009 19:43
• Quote from: libbybapa on 15 Jun, 2009 19:41

  Unless the pump is adjusted to an over-fueled state, it will provide virtually the same fuel as a similarly adjusted n/a pump.  Off-boost fueling should be the same as a n/a pump would provide.
  

  
  This is what i was trying to get out.. but i just wrote my lame post instead
  
  thank you Andrew
• #5 by rabbid79 on 15 Jun, 2009 21:28
• If you had to run without the turbo for a while, yes, the NA airbox and long runner intake manifold would definitely be a better choice.  The governor on the turbo pump may also be set a little lower which will prevent winding out the engine for maximum power.
• #6 by Aaron R on 16 Jun, 2009 19:15
• Thanks for your replies everyone.
  
  There is nosmoke at all untill I try to go faster than 70 kph or so.  Around town the van drives fine. But I've known people with fully loaded westy diesels that could do 90 or 100 kph on the highway.  It just seems like something is not right about the top speed.
• #7 by 8v-of-fury on 16 Jun, 2009 19:26
• Quote from: libbybapa on 16 Jun, 2009 19:25

  Your gearing is not adjusted to the 50 hp engine pushing the 4,000lb non aerodynamic box.  How are you revving that poor little engine?
  
  Andrew
  

  
  Precisely. What trans do you have mated to this beast? Actually.. this doesn't really make sense to me.. He could have  the worst trans possible with a 3.94 Final and .91 5th and still only be around 22-2300 RPM at 70kph (right where the engine makes its torque right?) It should in theory be able to accelerate at 70 at least a little.. Or would the aero's be THAT bad that it would actually cause sooooo much drag that this engine is just running out of power wayy to soon?
• #8 by 8v-of-fury on 16 Jun, 2009 19:39
• So, yes to running out of power? 
• #9 by Aaron R on 16 Jun, 2009 19:51
• The van has the stock '86 syncro tranny. 4 speed with the low gear. Would the td fuel pump or intake have anything to do with it ?
  
  Anyways ,I am ordering a new turbo in the next couple of days? I can get a k14 for an ecodiesel or a 1.9.  What do you suggest for my "beast"?
• #10 by Aaron R on 16 Jun, 2009 20:08
• Also are there any mods to do besides the oil return line, or any other parts I will need.
  Thanks in advance,  Aaron.
• #11 by Aaron R on 17 Jun, 2009 16:57
• Andrew , that really makes sense about the gearing. The van drives ok in the other gears.
   
  Ive removed the intake and exhaust and am not going to use it untill I have my turbo on. I ordered a new K14 . The one for the 1.9 engine. It was easier to get and I do plan on doing a few mods. Intake and custom exhaust, and some of the fuel pump stuff suggested on this site. Nothing too crazy.
  My oil cooler is installed in the front, and I have an Audi 5000 intercooler to try and fit in. But with my engine at 15 degrees there is a lot of room. I might mod the wheel well a bit.
  
  Thanks for your help everyone.
• #12 by stopping on 17 Jun, 2009 21:25
• almost time to change the title of this thread eh Aaron?
• #13 by Aaron R on 18 Jun, 2009 11:45
• Yes Andrew, custom mounts. There will nothing in the way of the turbo as the conversion was done with the turbo on the engine, and the original mount at the rear of the engine (near the belts) is being used and a custom mount using the transmission mount from an air cooled van. There is a bar that goes from one chassis rail to the other that it hangs from. I'll have to get some pictures on here soon, as the mounts are hard to describe.
  I also have seven guages to install, including EGT and boost.
  
  As for the name of this thread, I think I'll have start a new one once the van is back on the road.
• #14 by Aaron R on 18 Jun, 2009 12:15
• Can anyone tell me how to post pics. Looked for info but didn't find anything.