A report on the poly-insert side motor mounts - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• A report on the poly-insert side motor mounts by fspGTD on 06 May, 2004 13:51
• I've driven just a day from them, so have just gotten a feel for how they are... initial reactions are, at cold idle the vibrations are fairly bad.  Usually the vibrations are just kinda bad, but now with the heavy duty sides it's worse.  But then as the engine warms up it gets better.  There is just a little more vibrations at hot idle than there used to be.  Also, under power when driving I can feel a little more vibrations being transmitted into the chassis (makes the rear view mirror shake more at certain RPMs.)  For these reasons, maybe the A1 poly side inserts aren't all that streetable for a VW Diesel.  I am hoping I will be able to live with them however.  I might try removing the driver's side motor mount insert (leaving only the passenger side poly insert in place), and seeing how that works.  Also, there may be extra vibrations coming in through the new front mount... the new replacement mount seems fatter than the old one, and is definitely tighter fitting than the old one, fitting tightly into the mounting cup where the old one fit loosely in the cup.  That could be partly responsible as well.  Feeling the vibrations of the engine-side mounts at idle, there are a LOT of idle vibrations at that front mount bracket.  Edit: the new front mount also isn't genuine VW part.  I might try a genuine VW front mount, since it's easy to change and they are cheap anyway.
  
  Anyway, the biggest bummer is after installing the new mounts, I still have some clunks/popping noises over on the passenger's side from engine accel/decel or brakes or something (possibly something in the front suspension?)  I will check out the alignment of my boost tubes and exhaust, check for any loose suspension fasteners!  Gotta fix the clunk/popping noises!  
• #1 by fspGTD on 06 May, 2004 18:06
• OK... drove the car some more.  The idle vibrations seem to depend largely on... what do you know, alternator current draw!  Weird, huh?  It seems like the current draw only drops the idle RPMs by a very tiny amount (not enough to really even register noticeably on the tach) but it makes a big difference in the idle vibrations.  Without much current draw, the vibrations are downright perfectly fine and streetable.    I should try tightening my alternator belt some more and see if that makes a difference - it's on there quite loose and I've noticed that it whips around a lot at idle.  I ordered a new locking alternator adjust nut that I need to get on there too, as it has a tendency to loosen with the nut I am using right now.
  
  By the way, I weighed my car at the local dump, and it's weight loaded with me, fuel level 2 clicks above red (about 1/3 tank) and on its heavy street tires was 1990 lbs.  So without me, but still on street tires and with the same amount of fuel, it weighs 1840 lbs.  And with a minimum of fuel, lightweight racing tires, it weights.... ?  (think it will make it under 1800 lbs?   )
• #2 by BlackTieTD on 07 May, 2004 08:18
• i figure my car is at 1800Ibs, no fuel, no driver... or just above that.
  
  i'm going to weigh it at a truck weighing station on the highway when i see one that is shut down for the day (they still leave the scales turned on though ).
  
  no airbox, no washer bottle, no AC, no kneebar, no headliner, no sunroof liner, no interior behind the driver, no spare tire, no stereo or components, stock brakes/rims.
  
  1800Ibs sans fuel/driver you think? i think it will be about 1825Ibs.
  
  ---
  
  regarding the shakey idle/alternator draw...
  
  would an idle stabilizer valve or adjustable voltage regulator help at all? on the G60 i took off the ISV because i axed the AC and didn't feel i needed it anymore... but i added an adjustable voltage regulator (transpo unit). the transpo regulator gets rid of the battery light without blipping the throttle... and its supposed to adjust to provide max power... cant really report on much other than that it stopped the battery light from staying on.. and they are supposed to keep the G60 setups happy (lack of power from the alt really hurts performance in G60s).
• #3 by fatmobile on 07 May, 2004 09:59
• A Mercedes I'm messing with has a dial on the dash that allows the idle to be adjusted from the drivers seat.
   Works great for getting rid of that extra vibration at cold idle.
• #4 by BlackTieTD on 07 May, 2004 10:26
• that would be similar to our ignition advance (or 'choke' as my friends say) on our vw diesel cars wouldn't it?
• #5 by fspGTD on 07 May, 2004 11:28
• Have you guys seen a factory VW '86 on diesel cold-start mechanism?  It actually has some extra linkage on the pump that kicks up the idle RPM.  There are 2 stages depending on how much you have the cold start knob pulled out.  On earlier model the cold start knob only advances the timing, doesn't adjust the governor input shaft.
• #6 by fspGTD on 07 May, 2004 11:30
• By the way, my lightweight denso alternator always kicks on immediately after starting.  I learned that there is a circuit that is lacking in the bosch that is present in the denso that allows this it required a switched +12v connection be made, which I just routed from the injector pump stop solenoid.  It's a great feature!
• #7 by fspGTD on 07 May, 2004 11:34
• By the way itchy - you've got a 50 lb weight advantage over my car since you've got a 2-door and I've got a 4-door.  Since I've got what I've got, I'm going all out to see how light I can make it anyway, though.  That is probably my last big single chunk of weight I could lose, but it would be major work swapping the chassis, so I have been putting that one off (maybe permanently putting it off.)  I'm betting that I'll be able to compensate in other areas (namely, DIESEL POWER! )
• #8 by VWRacer on 07 May, 2004 13:02
• Hmm, I found a knob to the lower left of the steering wheel on my Quantum the other day, and wondered what it did. I'll have to try it out tonight to see if it's a high-idle knob. Thanks guys!
• #9 by fatmobile on 08 May, 2004 12:23
• VW racer, that is the coldstart knob. I don't know what year your car is but if it doesn't have all the extra stuff attached to the end of that cable where it meets the injection pump, it will only advance the injection pump timing during idle, not increase the idle speed.
   They started using it to up the idle as early as '86 eh?
   I've been waiting on this report about the poly mounts. I always assumed it would cause too much vibration.
   fspGTD is your engine balanced especially well? Does it normally run smoother than most turbo diesels?
   If cold idle is the only problem, we can deal with that.
• #10 by fspGTD on 08 May, 2004 14:13
• Don't slap that poly into your A1 diesel daily driver just yet...  the idle vibes are worsened after the install of the poly-inserted side mounts.  I was careful in aligning them, the exhaust system, etc.  I have a popping noise when I accel/decel sometimes that is my top priority.  I was hoping to solve it with the new mounts, but there was no help.  I am wondering CV joints possibly?  Doesn't seem to worsen when turning tight radius, the noise commonly happens just coasting forward, in fact.  None of the CV boots are torn, but both halfshafts are cheap high mileage rebuilds, partly why I am suspecting them.
  
  I also found one spot where the exhaust system downpipe could come into contact with a pressure hardline on the the power steering pump.  There is only about 1 finger thickness of clearance, could hit under heavy accel.  I'm not confident that's really what my popping problem is though, since it happens with conditions other than hard accel.
  
  I have a couple things to try to reduce the idle vibrations, namely removing the passenger mount poly insert, and finding a different brand with looser fit (Imaybe an OEM from the dealer) of front mount.  Either way since I have a 4-puck solid center racing clutch, which has kind of a chattery character that I think is really hard on mounts, combined with traction of the race slicks and limited slip (i tcommonly burns both front tires when launching) I will probably find some way to live with the passenge side poly insert.  I'll report back as to whether I can make it work for what I think would be reasonable for a daily driver...  preliminary report is (subjectively of course) the poly side mounts are maybe about "1/2 as bad" as a techtonics front mount.
  
  I have a totally bone-stock (non-balanced) bottom end.  It is not compression balanced nor weight balanced.  It's what most would typically get for a daily-driver, non-performance application.  In fact, I've measured the piston projection and it varies quite a bit from cylinder to cylinder.  It could definitely be built a lot smoother I am sure.  Still, it's not that bad, and I've also got an ultra-light flywheel.  The flywheel and pressure plate are highly precision balanced.
  
  Any ideas on the popping noise...  I guess if I could try and diagnose the noise with the front end up on jackstands and the driveline moving... could be a good way to go if I could get the noise to reproduce in that setup.
• #11 by fspGTD on 08 May, 2004 14:45
• Quote from: "fatmobile"

  
   They started using it to up the idle as early as '86 eh?
  

  
  
  I'm not sure if it was that early, but I recall a friend's '85 or '86 Jetta 1.6lTD did have the idle-RPM bump in the coldstart feature in it.
  
  The '85 Jetta TD that dad just bought doesn't have it.  So it could have even been late '85, maybe it was '86.
• #12 by VWRacer on 08 May, 2004 15:52
• My Quantum is an '85, and it has the cold start knob. Works, too!
• #13 by fspGTD on 08 May, 2004 17:55
• All VW Diesels have a cold start knob...  do you mean that your cold start advance is connected to an idle-RPM increase linkage at the injection pump?  You've got it if the position of the injection pump input shaft rotates at all depending on whether the cold start knob is pulled or not.  It's a cool feature IMO, even though it adds some complixity and might make access to the glow plugs a little more difficult...
  
  Another feature on the later pumps that is lacking on the earlier ones is an adjustment for "residual pressure" (which I still do not understand really.  Anyone want to take a whack at explaining that one to me?   )
• #14 by kdiesel on 20 May, 2004 16:54
• My 86 TD has the two stage cold-start, with the timing advance, and the second setting for idle increase.