Internal idle springs..need help - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Internal idle springs..need help by ejust on 04 Sep, 2005 14:55
• There a spring located on the inside of the pump that connects the upper half of the IP body to the lower half and pulls on the lever/plate that the governor attaches to. Its a small spring that has a loop on each end and in order to remove the upper half of the pump, you have to disconnect this spring which is part of the idle speed adjustment cam. In the process of pulling the top to see if it was still connected doe to the idle problems ive been having, the spring unattached itself and now is no where to be found. ive looked all over the car, the ground and i even have the pump off the car now afraid it fell down below. the top of the pump is off, the bottom i turned upside down to shake it out in case it fell in there. Ive flushed out with clean fuel but nothing so far.
  
  Can it fall internally far enuf where it wont come out?? Or am i safe that its not in there cause it wouldve fell out when having the body upside down??  All the fuel came out of it. I cant see nothing floating around in there at all either. I can always replace the spring from a hardware store. i just dont want any foriegn objects in there to tear it up.
  
  Im gonna replace my head gasket too now since ive been getting oil in the coolant and now that the pump is off and timing belt disconnected.
  
  I aprreciate all you help and input.
• #1 by fatmobile on 04 Sep, 2005 22:59
• There is a place behind the injection pump where things can fall and get lost. Behind the injection pump bracket. You might try a long magnetic pickup tool.
   I've learned to stuff towels around the pump before I pull the top off. Learned the hard way.
   I know this doesn't help you now but might help keep this from happening to someone else.
• #2 by ejust on 07 Sep, 2005 22:15
• any body esle willing to respond??
• #3 by Maarten on 08 Sep, 2005 00:57
• Did you try the poking with a magnet on a stick? Check behind the alternatorsupport too.
• #4 by fspGTD on 08 Sep, 2005 08:23
• You are referring to part number 806 here, right?
  http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/ve_blowup.jpg
  
  I wouldn't go looking for a replacement at a hardware store.  I once tried stretching this idling spring by a little bit, and it negatively changed the way the car felt as it drove.  What happened was the accelerator needed to be pressed down further to get the pump past it's idling stage.  It is very sensitive and really you need a very close match to what originally came on the car.  It is a very small and light spring.
  
  If you can't find your old spring, I would either scrounge one out of some other VW injection pump that is junked (go to the wrecking yard).  I don't know if they're all the same but at least it would be close.  You could also write down your pump part number, call a bosch diesel repair specialist, and tell him you want him to order this spring.  It might also be part number 806 for your injection pump (the parts blow-up above is for an '84 Jetta TD pump.)
• #5 by ejust on 08 Sep, 2005 15:03
• first off..i have an 86 TD.so my pump is a little different..i have the two step cold start system that bumps up idle and then the timing as well.  
  
  After looking at the IPB closely..the idle spring on the govenor isnt what i was referring too. This other spring is about 3/4-1inch long, has a loop on each end and connects between #95 assembly and this idle adjustment shaft that comes inside the upper housing of the pump.
  
  On the side of the pump you have adjustments for your idle speed (cold start fast and normal idle). The cold start lever pulls the cable and acts upon the timing cam on lower part of pump. The lower cam has an idle adjustment rod that goes up to the idle speed cam which the idle speed screws act upon to control normal and hi idle. The  upper cam has a shaft that goes to the inside of the upper housing. Theres a SPRING that is attached to this idle speed cam shaft and goes to the same assembly that the govenor connects to. Hope that clarifies it up a bit for ya.
• #6 by Giles@PerformanceDiesel on 18 Sep, 2005 02:03
• have u found the spring yet?
  
  yes that spring can go boing if u don't disconnect it while taking off
  the cover.
  
  it can fall in the pump, if u have it off u should be able to shake ti out
  for sure.  other wise it is outside the pump around the engine some
  where.
  
  let me know the pump # and i can sell u a new one if u can't find it.
  Giles
• #7 by ejust on 19 Sep, 2005 03:18
• thanks..i was going to just replace this spring from a hadware store as it looks like it doesnt require a specific tension like the ones on the govenor do. After all, it only controls the hi idle speed when the cold start cable is pulled. I did shake the heck out of the pump up side down hoping the spring would fall out, but nothing came ot but fuel. I was afraid it could fall deep inside where it cant come out. I dont know where it fell, just as long as its not in my pump. Since its off right now, im gonna change my head gasket as its leaking oil into my coolant.
• #8 by Hammy on 19 Sep, 2005 15:23
• You said you were going to change that head gasket 15 days ago. Hope you have another car to drive at the moment. Maybe you will find that spring while you're ripping other parts off in the meantime. :wink:  Best of luck with the gasket, remember to get the right gasket thickness, and buy new head bolts. I did this job once before without the new bolts, and wasted my time and money, hence I had to do it again. :oops:  If you are looking to put extra boost and fuel to the engine, you might want to look into a 1.9L steel head gasket, and maybe some head studs. I think Dr. D. has a set of studs for sale in the "For Sale" section. It's worth looking into, IMO.
• #9 by Giles@PerformanceDiesel on 19 Sep, 2005 16:06
• no u cannot use a hardware store part spring!!!!\
  
  it does control your normal idle and your fast (morning) idle too.
  
  so it is very important to the smooth operation of your car.
  
  Giles
• #10 by ejust on 19 Sep, 2005 19:54
• well good news.... i just got the Cyl head off tonight off the car to change the head gasket  (and damn that thing is heavy with the manifolds and turbo attached to it LOL!!) ..and guess what..
  YEP..i found the spring behind one of the brackets for the injection pump. WHew!!! Now i know for sure its not in the pump Woo Hoo. I can put that thing back together now.
  
  If your around Giles.. couple quick things in regards to the cyl head gasket change...
  
  does the block have "sleeves" in it??  It almost looks like it does..maybe that just from the previous gasket that gives it that appearance. Also..what can i use on the block and head to clean them up smooth without ruining anything?
  
  Thanks for your help and support and i enjoy all your post here.. Lots of great info on this site!!!