tdi rebuild kit

[mainer]

anywhere that i can get a complete rebuild kit for a tdi? i found a passat with a motor that they ran outta oil, it still runs but is toast... needs a rebuild.
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economic discussion

[RabbitGTDguy]

Good luck on finding a complete rebuild kit. I am working on rebuilding a 1z from a Passat and as of yet I have been unable to source a complete bottom end seal kit, etc...I'm having to "piece" together what I'm going to have to buy.... a few useful links for you though

www.autotechparts.com (has a complete head kit including stem seals, cam seals, etc...)

http://www.autohausaz.com/index.html  (looks very good...good prices, has alot of rebuild stuff for the motor)

www.germanautoparts.com   (they have quite a bit of stuff, seal, bearing wise)

www.zsimports.com   (so far the only place I've found that stocks TDI OEM rings...they probably have the other stuff too...have to call though...)

www.parts4vws.com (eh...not alot...but you can call and supposedly they can get just about anything)

I'm picking and choosing from each of these...better prices, some have certain pieces, some don't...

Hope that helps...


Joe

[hillfolk'r]

watch out,,ring sets are per hole ,,and can be 115$$ per hole,ifinally found a suplier for goetze(oem) that had em for around 20 a hole,get ready!!!i had a new set made to spec by total  seal with a "gapless" top comp ring,,it only cost 100$,,need a number for them??even with the engine on the stand,if i turn the crank w/a wrench ,like 1 inch,itllblow out the capplugs in the inj. holes,,,,,i cant wait to run em,,

[RabbitGTDguy]

hillfolk'r

I've been looking the route of Total Seals but they did not have a stock listing for the rings which means I need to measure mine and give them the specs. What are the numbers you have? that'd be really helpful when I call and speak to them.
As far as OEM rings, zsimports that I mentioned supposedly sells the whole set of 4 for around 60 something. Same with the AZ Autohaus I linked too...
I'm game for 2% leakdown though...any info you have on how you when to order, etc. would be great...numbers...even better. As for the price...100 seems low... did you have just the one ring made/modified and used your others or what? I was thinking they'd be up in the 200+ range for a complete set from total seal...


Joe

[therabbittree]

with blakes total seals ..you buy the goetz oem rings send em to total seal and they cut your stock top ring to make it gapless and did his for $100 on top of hwat you paid for the stock ring set..not bad i plan on doing mine that way ..and get a extra or two made up..i hate it when you break one by accident..or worst ha
later
Deo

[hillfolk'r]

yea yea,,,i bought 5 oem sets,igot em from mr-auto-parts.com,,not a link,but spellit that way,THEN,isemt them to total seal,,they charged 115 to mod the stock rings,,yo,,deo,,ifilled my pass side hd motor mount w/ epoxy,,but not the whole thing,,just the lower gap,and the 2 little holes on the side,,probablystillwould need a brace off of somethin for heavy draggin though,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yea reason for 5 is feared breakage on assembly,,,jus cheap insurance,,didnt need it,,,,,,,just turning it over on stand(crank),with a bump,itll shoot the capplugs out like a cork POING! :shock:

[RabbitGTDguy]

Think most any motor...at least even the TD I rebuilt and just sold for the TDI motor that has had the rebuild job done correctly and such will "pop" the caps plugs out of the motor...called "good compression"

As for total seals. Your decision really lies with what you are going to use the car for. After talking to total seals tech. for quite a while I decided not to go with total seals for a couple reasons. For the most part, total seal advertising a 2% leakdown as the most over a period of time for their rings. They also advertise for a great part that the rings are meant for drag/race applications only for the most part.

Also...Goetze is the orginal OEM manufacturer for rings on the TDI, and for VW as a whole for that matter. There rings are excellent quality and are very robust in themselves. The TDI motor that I'm rebuilding had 126k on it and the rings were still in fine shape and probably could have done another 100k but for the safety and insurance of not having to rip it apart again under a high boost application I sourced out a set of Goetze rings and will be running those. For the benefit vs. cost...I think the OEM's are the best deal . For anyone who is interested. I had the same probably sourcing a good price on them. Prices ranged from 90/hole to 135 /hole. Arizonaautohaus.com had a set for 67.00 but was out of stock and didn't know when they'd be able to refill. I gave Germanautoparts.com a call and talked to them and they not only found me a good deal, the seconded it by finding an even better deal. Ended up with stock, standard OEM rings from Goetze for about 86.00 for the complete set. So...some of it is about shoppin around. Someday someone will sell a complete kit...

Anyways.... .02

Joe

[fspGTD]

FYI: I spoke to Billy at Total Seal about gapless top rings, and he advised against converting stock cast rings to gapless for use in the top ring position, because they are weaker cast iron instead of exotic steel, they have fear of them breaking.  They have no problem with converting a stock (cast) 2nd ring to gapless, though.

I looked up the ring specs for the 1.6lTD, and sure enough they are cast ring in the top, not steel... are TDI rings different?

[RabbitGTDguy]

think i have a place I'll be able to look into that Jake... or...could look at the old ones of the current motor. I believe though that they are the same cast units as the older diesels used...

[hillfolk'r]

yall are messed up,,i have total seal rings in my tdi,,the stock rings  are chrome  plated steel,,,totalseal modded my stock goetze rings for 115$$$,,,that included  ring lube,and the  drycyl lube,,and a few stickers,lol,actually i had them mod 5 sets of rings,,cause im nervous nelly,and was worried about breaking one on install,,,they make top ring gapless,,,,they phosphate coated them too,,,,,,good dealfor the $$$$,,you have to send stock rings to them,,,i dealt with kevin,,,in sales,,,,,mine was first to be done,,,,,even cranking engine over onstand w/a 19mm wrench on crank,,like 1 inch of wrench travel at the far/long end of wrench,,itll blow out the capplugs i have in the injector holes,i bet thats like 5 degrees of crankrotation,,,and thats turning very slow also,,not a big hit on the wrench,,not even running yet,and totalseal rules!!!!,,,,,,,,,,ohas far as rebuild kits,,,my new parts place catalog,looks like theyare starting to offer kits for tdi's,,,,,gotta contact kevinat totalseal,,,,he mayremember me,,,,,,,ill have to grab my extra ring set if you want the numbers of the goetze rings i used,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kev got freaked out when i told him 30+ psi boost,and said to make top gapless

[RabbitGTDguy]

yall are messed up,,i have total seal rings in my tdi,,the stock rings  are chrome  plated steel,,,totalseal modded my stock goetze rings for 115$$$,,,that included  ring lube,and the  drycyl lube,,and a few stickers,lol,actually i had them mod 5 sets of rings,,cause im nervous nelly,and was worried about breaking one on install,,,they make top ring gapless,,,,they phosphate coated them too,,,,,,good dealfor the $$$$,,you have to send stock rings to them,,,i dealt with kevin,,,in sales,,,,,mine was first to be done,,,,,even cranking engine over onstand w/a 19mm wrench on crank,,like 1 inch of wrench travel at the far/long end of wrench,,itll blow out the capplugs i have in the injector holes,i bet thats like 5 degrees of crankrotation,,,and thats turning very slow also,,not a big hit on the wrench,,not even running yet,and totalseal rules!!!!,,,,,,,,,,ohas far as rebuild kits,,,my new parts place catalog,looks like theyare starting to offer kits for tdi's,,,,,gotta contact kevinat totalseal,,,,he mayremember me,,,,,,,ill have to grab my extra ring set if you want the numbers of the goetze rings i used,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kev got freaked out when i told him 30+ psi boost,and said to make top gapless

Long over run now... I have new Goetze rings in hand thanks to German Auto Parts and an awesome deal he was able to get me for them. Don't think I'll be going with Total Seals as I did do what you suggested, called, etc. and I mentioned the TDI, yours specifically and he didn't remember the application, etc. It was Kevin I spoke to too. Anyways... total seals recommendation was not to use their rings on a non-drag application. They can be made, etc. I asked if he could pull up your measurements, etc. that they did for your application because they needed to know bore, ring groove depths, heights, etc. and there was no info. There are guys running 180+whp with the stock rings on daily driven cars that aren't having problems either. Guess I just decided on this particular subject that stock was the best way to go. Stock, from the factory these bottom ends are very durable.
I'll be using the money for ceramic coating and machining of the combustion chamber bowls "lip" more than likely.

Joe

[hillfolk'r]

well,,imayhave my invoice# to go from,,,im ok w/them,because i figure i iwant a nutball ride,like light and tinny,a real bucket,that doesnt have anything on it that doesnt make it faster,,i canlive with radicalcars on the street,,,itll be setup"full race",lol(we say that about the loser rides at work that have stick on hood scoops),,,,no rice crap,,jus a primer grey 79 rabbit with stock steelies haulin the mail!!!! hows yours run???im scared for the possible lack of traction,ill jus use a honda!(FOR TRACTION),,gonna start swappin the engine in probably in january,,,

[RabbitGTDguy]

sounds good...
I think either way anyone goes, with or without total seals (its all about the builders preference...personally, I'll take a little blow by for security) it sounds like things are going to be fun. After all, this m-TDI is going into an MK1 too..

Joe

[hillfolk'r]

ever seen blowbyso bad,,that it frys rod bearings,,get em all day at work,,,blowby is bad,shootin flames past the rings,,causing sticking,gumming w/carbon etc,,then all that nice heat+fire hits the rod journal,,,,ouch

[RabbitGTDguy]

Yeap...no doubt, blowby is bad...

However, the OEM rings are very good and test very well in durability, etc. Read a couple articles where they tested the TDI rings running consistently on generator setup for several hours, days, etc. etc. The rings I just pulled off this 1z setup i have still measured well within spec at 126k . Hey...maybe it'll be a future upgrade