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#90
by
8v-of-fury
on 24 Apr, 2009 16:22
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american cars all grew out of the muscle cars of the 60's and 70's.
they were, and are, made for big open spaces where displacement is king, and the most steering you have to do at speed is changing lanes to pass.
european cars(and asian cars for that matter) are built for making turns faster, and accelerating out of them better.
in the twisties an import will usually do much better, and on the straight domestic cars usually do better(of course there are exceptions to both)
the biggest problem I see with all cars at this point(domestic and import) is that they seem to think that HP is king, and are building these hugley powerful cars that end up being even bigger and heavier to support the power.
they are missing the point that its really the HP to weight ratio that matters, not just the raw HP numbers
just look at the bugatti veyron and the lotus elise, the bugatti has 1000HP but the lotus will still spank it with a mere 200HP.
Can't actually believe i'm getting in on this thread...
This sums up why new cars need to have so much more hp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeNZluEhydE
I'd Take that one from the 70's anyhow. lol WAY nicer looking car! and yes as you say, Power to Weight. Shelby cobra comes to mind, I read somewhere that in its stock form it has close to the PWR of a Mclaren F1. 427 Side Oiler, what kinda power were they making.. had to to be close to 500? A light body with a big roaring v8 GENIUS. I don't much like domestic cars. OHH YEAH we can accelerate hard in a straight line! boo hoo! you cant do anything on a corner! lool
Now don't get me wrong, i love American muscle, REAL American muscle though. In 1964 from the first Pontiac GTO until probably around 1973. When Chargers, Mustangs, Fire birds, Camaros, EVERYTHING started getting out of hand size wise. They started shoving big blocks in everything that came off the line, yet under powering them to satisfy emissions..!? I'm sure a good tuned small block not only puts out more tq and hp but is a lot more efficient than a 460ci making 190hp.
a 1965 mustang with a 289 Hi-Po would walk up and down the tuned big blocks of the 70 mustangs. Why? PWR! American muscles were good for one thing only.. Drag strip style racing, and trust me, i never thought id hear myself saying that!
HOWEVER! There were parts in Muscle history where they had things going on. Late 60's.. 68-69-70, the famed 427. 1968 mustang's were still on the light side and were being powered by the infamous 345hp (according to the books) 427. However most said at the time the engine was severely under powered due to emissions and insurance reasons and some were known to be pushing closer to 380-390hp.. That combined with a toploader trans, 9" rear, and some good tires. You had one hell of a car!
Back to the meaning though, American car makers have lost all site of what they had going on. Bigger is not certainly better. I think that has been proven with the newest addition of the HEMI. :roll: What were they thinking!? they took a legend, and ruined it. When the HEMI died in the 70's it should have never come back. I was disappointed to see it come back, it is a disgrace to the original HEMI name. EVERY dodge vehicel came with the option of a HEMI .. Yeah ill take a Neon.. yes with the Hemi... Yes with dual exhaust.. Yes with a 6 speed auto trans.. WTH!! The new engine was NOT a HEMI.. it was merely a 5.7 engine with soem performance factory tuning. a HEMI was a 426ci engine with dual 4v carbs. a HEMI was offered in real cars. a HEMI is hard to come by nowadays. I hate dodge. lol
SOO.. I think i can safely say I have no more anger built up inside..... :twisted:
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#91
by
spencebm
on 24 Apr, 2009 17:14
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i am pretty sure the bugatti would eat the lotus except for on a tight track maybe...that thing is nuts
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#92
by
theman53
on 24 Apr, 2009 18:41
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I like GM cars, I think they handle fine. Chrysler on the other hand wow what junk. Ford, I just haven't been a fan, maybe because of all the ones except the diesel ones in my immediate knowledge were crap too.
Not going to do it. I will not.. I really want to but no... OK I am staying out of politics, I have other forums for that. I will leave you with this and this is really how I feel. "edit" FTW
*removed by mods*
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#93
by
8v-of-fury
on 24 Apr, 2009 18:45
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from the man with a cow head for his avatar we get BOOBS and quite the lovely ones at that. lol
Good Job Lucas, You successfully diffused this thread :twisted: :lol:
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#94
by
theman53
on 24 Apr, 2009 18:58
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oh there is more, but none so political as that and stimulating
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#95
by
OmnibusX
on 24 Apr, 2009 19:52
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hehe looks like i sett something on fire with the handling post
I am obvously no american and i have never been over there, but the only reasonable explanation i can see on the handling part of american cars is less building coast, a excessive focus on comfort and the roads that looks like having no turns. On TV at least hehe:P
One thing is certain, they are mostly useless on our roads.
BTW: in Jeremy Clarkson we trust
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#96
by
maxfax
on 24 Apr, 2009 21:01
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NOW I feel a bit moer stimulated.. Thanks theman!
In comparison our roads are pretty open and straigt compared to across the pond.... I also feel as though out roadways in general are not of the best quality.. At least here on the East Coast... Not to mention we tend to drive longer distances here too. So comfort is a big factor...
Alot of people don;t seem to realize that there are options for suspension on new cars, the dealers don;t really seem to push this much either.. My neighbor (with 5 kids) pretty much has to have a minivan.. When he bought his last one (2000 Windstar) he ordered a HD sport suspension on the thing.. Believe it or not it's one sweet handling minivan.. :shock:
For myself if I have to travel around local on all these hillbilly back roads I take the Rabbit, but generally If I'm going any distance I'll suck it up and pay the extra to drive the Lincoln.. After a 300 mile trip today in the Rabbit I'm reminded why I generally don;t travel in it...
Now if we could get some consistant quality on US autos.. Seems we get one issue remedied and cause six more.. The Buick mentioned earlier is a good example of that..The 3800, a decades old engine design from the late 50's early 60's has been a reliable, long lasting, and efficient engine.. The Lesabers and Park Avenues could pull 30mpg, not bad for a big car. The transmissions used with them well, the engines generally outlased them by 3 to 4 times.. As of the late 90's the 4t60e trans finally started to be pretty reliable, but they also thru this plastic upper intake on them.. Plastic is fine for just airflow, but coolant is a different story.. Quite a few 3800s died WAY too early (60K - 80K miles) because the intake deteriorated and spewed all the coolant in the air intake.. Grandma could throw rods though the block on her way to church..
Ford had just about the same problem only not quite as drastic, and Chrysler, well.. I think the Neon engine is a Hemi.. Or is it a pent roof? Eh who cares it'll be dead before it's paid for...
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#97
by
maxfax
on 24 Apr, 2009 21:16
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Oh yeah I almost forgot, I got me a package from Prothe today.. Pretty fast shipping I ordered later in the day on Tuesday...
Took the pistons to the machine shop, the measured and weighed them.. All constant in weight and dimension..
Since he has a deal right now (order 5 items get 10% off) I decided to try a few other things.. I got a gasket set, some hoses, rubber v/c gasket, and water pump..
The hoses, well, were hoses.. The gaskets and seals seem to be of decent quality, dimensions and fitment was good.. The v/c gasket didn;t come with studs but I knew that upfront..
The water pump was in a box labeled made in china.. :roll: Steel impeller, bearings felt smooth, fit up to the housing just fine.. The gasket surface didn;t have quite the polished finish as some others but much better quality than a reman..
I guess time will tell on this stuff... I'm still planning on getting the bearings, HG, timing belt and tensioner elseware at this point..
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#98
by
Duster 5.9
on 24 Apr, 2009 22:11
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I'd just like to point out that duster never replied :roll:
Which makes all the banter prior to this page even funnier.
I did on page 1.
again i opoligize for being stupid. I can't believe my stupid question lasted this long. I thought this post would have buried itself. OH well! since it is already way off topic anyway i would like to comment on a few things. First off I was not hiding. My wife and I were tending to her uncle for the past 3 weeks in our home who was dying of cancer. well, today he passed. This has been a learning experience for the both of us and i would do it again. so yes today I'm sad. I would also like to comment of the PROTHE. I delt with him 1 time on a injection pump.WHAT JUNK!!! and for all you Canadians!!!! you are more than welcome in my driveway. Yes there are differences, but to me!!personally!! we are NORTH AMERICANS. I have a few personel friends that live in canada. I've never had a problem with a canadian. As far as all the dumb ass drinking laws yes they pretty much all exist in the drunk capital of the usa WISCONSIN. you can all drink one for me i rarley have a beer. Obama? yes i voted for him. am i glad? yes i am, he was the best joice at the time. I however side with most and that i'm not a politition and will not argue the matter. then we get to the car thing. Yes i love american muscle (american?) alot of it was made in canada. funny, i work in a huge grey iron foundry, yesterday i made castings that said and I quote "MADE IN CANADA". This is also how I have Duster for a username. I'm currently building a round tube chassis plymouth duster drag car. engine dynoed to 802 HP. I also remember a few people nocking chrysler. wel my car is not done yet, but when it is ,,,, BRING IT LOL! (jk)..well this is all I want to talk about for now so cheers and happy VW ing....
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#99
by
maxfax
on 24 Apr, 2009 23:09
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LOL Duster just covered seven pages in one post!!!
There is not way I would buy an IP from Prothe.. I did buy one of his IP reseal kits years agot (not knowing any better).. And actually so far so good with it..
I only rip on Mopar cause it's an easy target, but bad in the day they could actually build a car.. I'm guessing that's not a slant six you're building.. If I ever get my Mopar done I'll race you.. :wink: I must of smoked a left handed cigarette or something cause I am building a slant six.... :twisted:
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#100
by
Turbinepowered
on 25 Apr, 2009 02:46
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Personally, now?
You don't have a sports car unless it's a standard transmission. If it's a slush, you just have a really overpowered turd.
Also, I'll have a double dose of
that stimulus package, please. Or maybe her redheaded sibling?
Total sucker for redheads... it's going to get me in trouble someday.
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#101
by
catlin_cava
on 25 Apr, 2009 05:41
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Turbinepowered
Personally, now?
You don't have a sports car unless it's a standard transmission. If it's a slush, you just have a really overpowered turd.
Also, I'll have a double dose of that stimulus package, please. Or maybe her redheaded sibling?
Total sucker for redheads... it's going to get me in trouble someday.
You and Me both Man :lol:
How did this go so far off topic....Its all Good
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#102
by
rabbitman
on 25 Apr, 2009 08:40
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The water pump was in a box labeled made in china..
This might sound stupid but were can you get parts made in USA, or anywere alse good for that matter? Recently I bought new brake discs from Napa, one came in a slightly bigger box and was made in venezuala, the other was made in china. They both fit good and work fine, other than the occasional squeel.
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#103
by
maxfax
on 25 Apr, 2009 09:42
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This might sound stupid but were can you get parts made in USA, or anywere alse good for that matter?
That doesn;t sound stupid at all.. How many parts DON'T come from South America, Mexico, or Asia???
I used to be a stickler for the genuine OEM part.. But when I pull it out of the box and it has "Made in China" the same as the cheaper generic part and its made exactly the same how can I tell a customer that paying twice the price is going to yeild them a better job? Chances are both parts are probably made at th same facility...
Yeah sometime the cheaper part is just that, CHEAP.. It's a pick and choose game I guess.. I've installed the cheaper parts made in these places, and the "better" part made elseware only to find the cheaper one holds up better..
And you know what they say about red heads, the redder the hair the more fire in the. :shock: .. Well anyhow.........
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#104
by
theman53
on 25 Apr, 2009 11:20
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The last one may have given the wrong impression. I think women are created in the image of God and designed for our pleasure. I was just using that to sway our minds from the political section
.
As far as redheads go is this what you were thinking?