Author Topic: Brake upgrade tips?  (Read 6890 times)

April 07, 2009, 11:20:09 am

The Mad Hatter

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Brake upgrade tips?
« on: April 07, 2009, 11:20:09 am »
Ok, i'm making a junkyard run later this week, and wanted to know what to look for to upgrade the brakes on the ol' VW.  I've got an 85 Golf Diesel, mostly stock, but it has been lowered slightly.  

What i'm trying to find is the easiest brake upgrade i can find.  I've got a rear disc axle i'll be swapping in soon, and from what i've read i'll need a bigger master cylinder (?).  But the front brakes do most of the work, so i'm looking for an easy upgrade from the stock 9.4" solid setup.  I could probably find a 9.4" vented setup, but not sure what parts i would need to grab for that swap.  I'm guessing its just a different caliper.

But, what's involved with the 10.1" swap?  I suppose its been around so long i can't find information describing what's necessary!  Just looking for a good cheap brake upgrade for the daily driver.  Thanks for any help!



Reply #1April 07, 2009, 01:35:10 pm

spencebm

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 01:35:10 pm »
i have all of the mk3 brakes on my mk2 from the front end (10.1)  You don't need the master cylinder but it is a good idea.  Everything bolts right up.  same ball joints/tie rod ends.  ask me if you need any help.  stops on a dime.
Ben Spencer

Reply #2April 07, 2009, 03:36:18 pm

The Mad Hatter

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 03:36:18 pm »
Ok, so what parts are needed.  What do i need to grab off a parts car?  I'm guessing caliper, rotor (probably get new ones), and the knuckle?  It will need an alignment after that, also, correct?

EDIT:  It seems to me after some more research that I can just upgrade the rotors to the 9.4" vented type (get some good ones like brembos), and some good pads (Red box or EBC Greenstuff), along with the rear disc axle swap, and i should be pretty well off for a daily driver diesel?  Thoughts?  Opinions?  

I'm trying to build a good car using minimal money.  So far i've done pretty well, but i need to upgrade my tire investment, as the $46 Kuhmo Ectsa's just don't cut it for commuter duty in the rain, and wear out after 20K miles.  My front brakes are just about wore out, so i figure now would be the good time to upgrade the whole thing, on the cheap.  Thanks again, for any help!

Reply #3April 07, 2009, 08:17:26 pm

spencebm

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 08:17:26 pm »
you can get some mean pads and rotors for the 9.4s and that will be good I am sure but if you go mk3 it will probably be cheaper because those nice pads and rotors are expensive.  The mk3 way will need caliper, knuckle,bolts and the caliper holder bracket.  you will need new wheel bearings in the mk3 hubs which is tough to do and new stock rotors and pads.  (rotors are vented usually stock on mk3s)  It will take replacing some things like the steering components, tire rod ends, ball joints, etc. but it is a little work for a good upgrade.  if you want easy then buy the nice 9.4 pads and rotors, they aren't hard to change.  if you do go mk3 you will need an alignment of course!  hope that helps.
Ben Spencer

Reply #4April 08, 2009, 05:58:22 am

Ziptar

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 05:58:22 am »
If you do go the 10.1 route, see if you can get the 22mm master cylinder that goes along with them, might as well, required to use the rear discs.

Already had the rear discs but, last year I swapped 9.4 fronts for 10.1s and a bigger master cylinder setup huge difference.

I used Mintex Red Box "OE Compound" pads, cost about the same as generic pads. Seem to be doing very well, haven't seen much dust either.

Reply #5April 08, 2009, 09:20:58 am

The Mad Hatter

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 09:20:58 am »
So the 22mm master cylinder is required for the rear disc swap?  I've gotten different answers on that.  I've been told it is, and it isn't.

Reply #6April 08, 2009, 09:52:39 am

AudiVWguy

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 09:52:39 am »
I'm trying to remember, but aren't 10.1's standard on some of the MK2 cars? Like the 16V cars, Jetta, Rocco, GTI, (maybe Audi 4000)? Wasn't this direct bolt-up to the MK1 hub?

ONCE THIS IS RESOLVED AGAIN, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE PUT IN A FAQ??
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Reply #7April 08, 2009, 10:17:28 am

The Mad Hatter

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 10:17:28 am »
For the Golf specifically (as that's what i've been using for research), all the parts sites i use list NO 10.1" discs for a Mk2 Golf.  Only 9.4", for the 16V all the way down to the GL.

Reply #8April 08, 2009, 02:10:18 pm

spencebm

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 02:10:18 pm »
i really don't think you need the master cylinder even with the mk3 rear discs, it is just a matter of preference but i could be wrong.  Don't worry about the 10s being on the mk2s, just use the mk3s discs up front because the 10s wont fit on the 9.4 calipers anyway
Ben Spencer

Reply #9April 08, 2009, 03:41:42 pm

AudiVWguy

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 03:41:42 pm »
Sorry, missed the part about it being an 85 Golf. (I'm dope slapping myself)
The idea with the master cylinder up grade is that with the larger front discs and the addition of rear discs there is more fluid that needs be to pushed to the calipers. By increasing the diameter of the MC it allows you to move the fluid without feeling like you are pushing the brake pedal down more than you are used to.
Having said that, you can be a little too large, like the MC off an Audi 100. Which is a very short pedal stroke, but you have to push harder. It's like the brake booster provides you "leverage" and the size of the MC also effects this leverage. The end result being the force applied to the rotor.

Hopefully this kinda makes sense. I want to have the breaking force available to lock the front wheels without making the brake pedal a leg press machine.  :wink:
81 Caddy
NA to TD
Giles Superpump "There is no Substitute"
Meth/H2O Inj, BFI, 3" Ext.
8 lb. flywheel, Oil Cooler
11" Corrado Brakes

86 Audi 5K TQ (For Sale)
2000 Miata SE (Track project)

Reply #10April 08, 2009, 08:40:51 pm

The Mad Hatter

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 08:40:51 pm »
Lol, AudiVWguy, its cool.  See, i'm going with the rear discs from a Mk2 GTI, NOT a Mk3.  And it seems that the cheapest and easiest way to go for this car, being a daily driver and not my sports car (thats the RS), that switching to vented 9.4" front discs with good rotors/pads and the 8.9" Mk2 rear discs should be great.  If I can get away with not changing the MC for that setup, that's perfect for me.

Reply #11April 09, 2009, 12:49:09 am

AudiVWguy

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 12:49:09 am »
Brake pads will make the single largest difference. I'm running Hawk HPS. The wife's car has Axxis Ultimate  VERY impressive. Then there's always  Carbotech (buy the best and cry once  8) )
Good Luck,
-JB
81 Caddy
NA to TD
Giles Superpump "There is no Substitute"
Meth/H2O Inj, BFI, 3" Ext.
8 lb. flywheel, Oil Cooler
11" Corrado Brakes

86 Audi 5K TQ (For Sale)
2000 Miata SE (Track project)

Reply #12April 09, 2009, 09:25:21 am

spencebm

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Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 09:25:21 am »
new pads feel great, get em
Ben Spencer

Reply #13December 05, 2012, 11:59:55 am

JBG3

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Re: Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 11:59:55 am »
to revive this thread in relation to the master cylinder-

Id like to partially do what mad hatter did.  I want to leave the front brakes on my 86 alone and stock, and get rear rotors from a mk3 and install them.

Ive heard I can use an entire beam from a mk3 and just connect the brake lines and suspension, is this possible?

If I only swapped over to rear rotors off a mk3, would I have to alter the master cylinder thats stock to my 86?
Id like to leave that alone if I can avoid it, but id also like to get away from persistent drum drag problems ive been having with the stock arrangement. 
1986 1.6NA Jetta

Reply #14December 05, 2012, 10:59:34 pm

burn_your_money

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Re: Brake upgrade tips?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 10:59:34 pm »
I'm pretty sure the mk3 beam is wider than the mk2. Depending on your tires I think it's ok though.
Tyler