Should I time different?

[Rabbit TD]

I got my Giles T/D injectors today, just rebuilt stock ones and put them in.  I also switched to the the N/A pump cause T/D one is leaking and hard to start so I'm just going to run it till I get the T/D one rebuilt.  It does have some movement in the shaft but it didn't look like it was leaking real bad though and I did put a new seal in it putting the engine together too but fuel drips bad from somewhere on it.  Anyhow this N/A pump was perfect on the other N/A motor and I had it timed to 1.0 and on this one it is 1.0 also and I checked it carefully before covering things back up and mechanical timing as well.  I had to jack the idle speed up a good bit to get it to run as smooth as it was on the other engine though.  Does the 155 injectors affect idle speed like that compared to the 130 ones on a non-turbo pump  It starts pretty good now with the other pump now though but I'm wondering about timing on a N/A pump with 155 injectors, should I go higher or the other way.  I just got done around 10:00 and I didn't test drive it other than bring it up front and it is not leaking water or fuel now like it did.  I also did another compression check and all cylinders are pretty close to 500 now so evidently I didn't hurt it pulling the ARP's to that point and it's not puking out the tank either.  I would liike to know where to set the timing now though, or do new injectors just act like that for a while but is smooth and even otherwise. though and was fairly easy to get started after switching everyhing and priming with my mighty vac.

[Rabbit TD]

Injector breaking pressure doesn't directly affect idle speed, but rather injection timing and so indirectly it affects idle speed.  As break pressure is increased, timing is retarded and so pump timing must be advanced to compensate.  That is the reason that the timing spec for the TD engines is more advanced than that of the n/a motors with their lower breaking pressures.  With retarded timing, idle speed will decrease and so what you experienced fits with that.

So then what is the best thing to do to advance it, set the idle speed back like it was and just move the pump forward a little while it's running or is there a good number timingwise, people use to do this.  I thought the T/D timing was about the same, I'm not sure on that though, I'm at 1.0 now.  If undestand right from what you said the other day though the N/A pumps internaly other than the fuel aneroid are the same otherwise then.  I think I'm going to try to rebuild the other one {T/D } myself, shaft bushing as well.  I ordered two seal kits the other day from Midwest diesel but I didn't order the bushing though as I didn't think it was leaking there at all and I put a new seal on the shaft putting this all together but there is no sense getting that deep into i without a new bushing and there is some visible play in it.  When my N/A leaked a few ears ago it would run down the pulley side of the bracket and down into the plastic cover on the bottom and you could see it drip out, this seems to be running down the insde of the bracket though  and that's why I thought it was the advance lever and it dripped on the ground very bad on start up.   This N/A one though on the other engine would always start good and just a bump on the starter with the lever out any time in the Summer with no glow plugs used.

[Rabbit TD]

Be sure the cold start cable is pushed in prior to attempting to time the engine.

Judging from your other thread, you don't have a positive timing mark and so it's all guesswork.  I'd first verify TDC accurately by either using a feeler in an injector hole, pulling the pan looking at rod throws or holding a valve open and rotating the crank each direction by hand until it hits the valve and placing a TDC mark directly in the middle of the two points.

1.05 is usually a good timing position for use with 155 bar injectors.  0.95 is usually good with the 130 bar injectors.

Perhaps timing by ear would be effective as well.  Advance it until it's fairly rattley.

What I was refering to aboyt the off timing mark was on the other engine, the N/A one.  I just wanted to check where the timing was ifit had changed over the years or not {3} now.  I had the valve cover off anyway so I turned it to number 1 lobes up on the cam, locked the cam in back with a file I use, put the pin in the pulley hole on the pump but the timing mark or any other mark was no where to be seen on the crank.  I knew it wasn't 180 out and this motor ran fine when I took it out last month.  The actual 0 mark was off by about a quarter turn and I thought {WTF} this thing can't run like this but it always did and timing wasn't touched in 3 years.  Then I remembered I put a clutch in this car last summer with a rebuilt pressure plate, again Autozone, it all bolted up fine and it only will drop in one way on this one anyhow as far as that goes.  The trans. bolted up fine and I adjusted the freeplay and I was done  IF I had ever tried to time the engine like this it would have messed something up but I always hand rotate first anyhow but I am sure that when the pressure plate was rebuilt it wasn't alligned with the crank bolt holes which throws off the timing mark, this thought just came to me last night posting something on this and I think this is happening to lot's of us and we don't realize what's wrong.  I did just take a punch and mark the flywheel while I had everything else pinned and locked assuming the crank was supposed to be on 1 tdc.  I used the dial indicator at that point and the timing came right back to 1.0 where I set it 3 years ago.  It's those rebuilt pressure plates throwing this off.and everyone should be aware of it and make a mark on the front pulley as a future reference too.  I did on the new engine and I'm glad I did as I used it timing the engine on a stand and I made a pointer with a mark on the lower belt cover that match up.  I had the head off when I did this and had my other indicator set up to measure max piston projection and did it that with 3 marks and using the middle one, I'll never trust another mark on a flywheel again unless I had it apart to verify that's where the pistons actualy are with that particular pressure plate.  I;m not saying they are all bad or all off but this one damn sure is and it only goes on 1 way, ever seen this before?  After seeing this I am going to doublecheck the mark on my T/D engine as well since I already have marks on the front from assembly and verify the flywheel mark is right, if not make a new one.

[Rabbit TD]

Be sure the cold start cable is pushed in prior to attempting to time the engine.

Judging from your other thread, you don't have a positive timing mark and so it's all guesswork.  I'd first verify TDC accurately by either using a feeler in an injector hole, pulling the pan looking at rod throws or holding a valve open and rotating the crank each direction by hand until it hits the valve and placing a TDC mark directly in the middle of the two points.

1.05 is usually a good timing position for use with 155 bar injectors.  0.95 is usually good with the 130 bar injectors.

Perhaps timing by ear would be effective as well.  Advance it until it's fairly rattley.

Thank's for your answer,  I took it out today with the N/A set at 1.0 using the flywheel mark which you probably already read my thread on concerning that.  Originaly when I set up the T/D pump I didn't have the flywheel on yet with the engine on a stand but made a pointer that I had bent to just miss the lower belt cover with a 0 mark on it using a dial gauge on the piston so I trust it more than the flywheel now. At that time the motor ran great and with only about 50 miles on it but was hard to start with the leaking pump but ran great with more power on the old 155 injectors and also with no smoke. I set the T/D pump also at 1.0 at that time with my indicator as I had no flywheel at that time on the stand.
    Since then all my timing has been done with the 0 mark on the flywheel really nothing seems to have the same pep I originaly had rechecking the timing with the flywheel mark. Even with the new  155's from Giles but I know I have to jack the  timing up some in that case with the N/A pump.  It's as smooth as can be and you almost have to stall the engine letting the clutch to get a hint of smoke out of it even at 0 right now but doesn't have the zip it first had with the T/D pump on it and old injectors timed with my mark.  I'm going to 1.05 or 1.06 tomorrow from 1.0 and check back then but it cruizes great and the EGT came down and the water temp at 175 today with 65 degree weather  so things are right otherwise now with these injectors and smokes even less, almost nothing and the original setup wasn't bad, just leaked.  But I am going to use the original marks I made and the pointer and verify where the crank mark actualy is on this engine too, I won't trust them anymore unless I physicly know where #1 piston actualy is to begin with and I do with my mark since I checked it with 3 marks and using the center one.  P.S I have just about 500 psi. on all cylc. now since the 100 lb. retorque and not pissing water using the old known to be good thermostat too, the new 180 was an Autozone version, the one in the engine is out of the old engine and is a German 180.  All is going good now, just need my T/D pump back on to play :lol:

[Rabbit TD]

Be sure the cold start cable is pushed in prior to attempting to time the engine.

Judging from your other thread, you don't have a positive timing mark and so it's all guesswork.  I'd first verify TDC accurately by either using a feeler in an injector hole, pulling the pan looking at rod throws or holding a valve open and rotating the crank each direction by hand until it hits the valve and placing a TDC mark directly in the middle of the two points.

1.05 is usually a good timing position for use with 155 bar injectors.  0.95 is usually good with the 130 bar injectors.

Perhaps timing by ear would be effective as well.  Advance it until it's fairly rattley.

I wanted to do his today but I've been going to the dentist constantly tryig to get a denture made.  We took it out yesterday and it ran very nice and starts a lot faster with the N/A and the exhaust temp is lower as well.  And it doesn't piss out water or fuel anymore either and water temp is more stable and lower as well.  It really does feel retarded though and feels a little labored till it gets warm.  I'm going to go to 1.05 and see how it acts at that setting.  I'd like to go do it now but I have to sit here and be an attentive companion {You know what I mean}
I just can't get over how clean the exhaust is on this engine, it was clean on the T/D pump and it's original injectors but with my rebuilt Giles 155's the only thing I've seen yet is a little black puff when it starts and a little gray puff if I almost stall the engine letting out the clutch.  The rest of the time from my mirror it looks as clean as my Buick but people are following me closer now as a result but that's the only down side :lol: