Swapping pump tops? Can it be done?? - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Swapping pump tops? Can it be done?? by rixy on 11 Mar, 2009 11:56
• hi peeps, i have a IP from my ALB t4 engine, with no boost enrichment on it, and i also have an AAZ pump, with LDA etc all on the top.
  
  Basically,i wanna fit the top of the AAZ pump onto the ALB one, as i'll be removing the top anyway, to have a got at the gov mod.
  
  Can the tops be swapped, and how is it done??
  
  Any how to's??
  
  Or should i just fit the AAZ pump and leave it as is?? Only prob i can see is my immobiliser, can these be swapped from pump to pump?
• #1 by theman53 on 11 Mar, 2009 18:44
• I would assume you can since there have been guys on here do it with the eco and regular TD  1.6L engines, but I have no clue.  Usually if you get a couple of replies some people start to look at the thread that might know that is why I am writting. It might help.
• #2 by rixy on 12 Mar, 2009 00:08
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  Swapping an LDA top onto a non-turbo pump is not particularly difficult.  There are a couple of gotchas.  One is that there is a pin on the side of the non-turbo pump that needs to be removed and the hole plugged.  Next you need to make sure that the LDA lever will be engaged properly in the control collar lever assembly.  I'm actually currently doing so and so will try to take a couple of pics tomorrow.
  
  Andrew

  
  
  im not swapping an LDA onto the top of a non TD pump, both are TD pumps, but one has no vacuum boost enrichment, and one does.
  
  cheers for the replies, i'll see if i get any responses......
• #3 by rixy on 12 Mar, 2009 00:13
• i shall see what i can do :-)
• #4 by anto on 12 Mar, 2009 01:14
• How would you know if the lda lever was correctly engaged with the control collar lever assembly?
  Is it simply a case of trial and error on the car or can you test it off the car?
• #5 by Rabbit TD on 12 Mar, 2009 10:58
• Quote from: "rixy"

  Quote from: "libbybapa"

  Swapping an LDA top onto a non-turbo pump is not particularly difficult.  There are a couple of gotchas.  One is that there is a pin on the side of the non-turbo pump that needs to be removed and the hole plugged.  Next you need to make sure that the LDA lever will be engaged properly in the control collar lever assembly.  I'm actually currently doing so and so will try to take a couple of pics tomorrow.
  
  Andrew

  
  
  im not swapping an LDA onto the top of a non TD pump, both are TD pumps, but one has no vacuum boost enrichment, and one does.
  
  cheers for the replies, i'll see if i get any responses......

  
  
  If the one doesn't have a line for the LDA enrichment where does it get it's signal from?  Are you sure they are both T/D or one an Eco diesel.
• #6 by rixy on 12 Mar, 2009 11:35
• here is the one that is on mine, from the top (as its still fitted)
  
  
  
  and im sure u all know what an AAZ pump looks like??
  
  Anyway,they are both deffo TD pumps, any ideas??
• #7 by Vincent Waldon on 12 Mar, 2009 21:50
• Hmmm.... does that pump look sandblasted?!  :wink:
• #8 by Rabbit TD on 12 Mar, 2009 22:15
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  I'd call that a non-turbo pump (despite being fitted to a turbocharged engine) as it has no boost enrichment.
  
  Yes, you can swap on an LDA pump top.  As I mentioned, you need to remove a pin.  Here's a picture in which an awl is pointing at the pin that needs to be removed:
  
  
  
  I removed the governor gear, shaft and flyweights and tapped it into the pump.  Here's a picture with it removed:
  
  
  
  Once the pin is removed, I then used the pictured step drill to enlarge the pin hole large enough to tap it to 1/8" NPT and install an 1/8" NPT allen plug:
  
  
  
  There are a myriad of fine variations on the levers and the LDA lever can be on either side of the pump.  When I mentioned that the LDA lever needs to align with the control collar lever assembly I was referring to needing the lever to press against the same lever part as the accelerator lever spring capsule is attached to.

  
  
  Does the converted N/A pump put out the same pressure as the T/D one and is there any other things to change like the delivery valves or anything other than changing the tops, I have  feeling I might be doing this soon.  What exactly is the pin that has to be taken out of the  N/A pump and can you plug the hole with something like JB Weld or something in case you want to put it back to N/A and how about the governoor setting, is there a differrence on that as well?
• #9 by rixy on 13 Mar, 2009 12:44
• cheers for the info........so in reply then, would i be far better off fitting an AAZ pump, instead of changing tops etc?? gotta be easier?? will it run straight off, or will i need to adjust fuel screws or anything??
• #10 by Rabbit TD on 13 Mar, 2009 14:52
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  The other internals of the pump are the same between the non-turbo and turbo pumps.  The delivery valves are the same.  The pressure that either pump puts out is determined by the breaking pressure of the injectors.  Either pump is capable of putting out far more pressure than they do.  The pin that is removed is basically a fulcrum for the control collar lever assembly.  That fulcrum is replaced by the LDA lever.    I believe the governor springs are the same, although the actual stock max rpm setting is lower on the TD pumps.  That adjustment is easy to change by adjusting the full pedal stop out further.  Due to the extremely low cost of core non-turbo pumps and the fact that I really have no use for non-turbo motors, I have never given any thought to doing a reversible conversion.  
  
  Andrew

  
  
  That sure sounds good that all the parts are the same and I think I am gonna do the swap from my N/A pump on the other engine which started with just a bump of the starter and never leaked.  I might as well try it first before sending it off if I don't have too and I'm not really looking for super high power anyway, just a litte more power with real good econmy.  I checked my Rabbit again today and the pump does leak which is probably why it is hard to start.  The only problem is I can't really find the leak and it is a pretty big one but only leaks when you first start it.  I took the timing belt cover off thinking it might be the main shaft seal which I did replace but it is all nice and dry in there, I was wondering if it might be getting on the belt.  The way it drips on the ground {about a drop every 3 seconds you think you would be able to see it running out of something but it ony seems to leak when you are starting it not while it's running but it is a hell of a leak where ever it is coming from and has to be affecting pressure somewhere. Doesn't miss or anything while it's leaking though.  So if everything is the same I'm gonna give it a try and I have some old N/A pumps as well I might practice on first to see what I'm getting into and my Giles injectors should be here in a day or 2.
• #11 by rixy on 14 Mar, 2009 01:57
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  I'm not sure regarding any electronics differences with regard to the immobilizer you mentioned previously.
  
  Andrew

  
  
  im not too bothered about the immobiliser, as i can bypass that, due to having a 3 stage immobiliser / alarm on its way to me this week, to be fitted next wekend hopefully.
  
  But will the pump fit, and work mechanically from the off?? Can i just bolt it on, and away we go?? If all works mechanically,then electrical is easy to sort........
  
  cheers
• #12 by Rabbit TD on 14 Mar, 2009 19:37
• Quote from: "rixy"

  cheers for the info........so in reply then, would i be far better off fitting an AAZ pump, instead of changing tops etc?? gotta be easier?? will it run straight off, or will i need to adjust fuel screws or anything??

  
  
  I know I would just use the AAZ T/D pump and you don't have to change anything, has it ran in a while?  I'm thinking about leaks, maby at least the main shaft and advance lever seals while it's off.  That's where I'm at now, a good pump that leaks, if there is such a thing :lol:
• #13 by rixy on 15 Mar, 2009 01:13
• im not too sure how long it's been since it ran, but will be ordering a seal kit to partially rebuild it, as i'll be gov modding, and pin changin before it goes in i should imagine.
  
  I havent actually got the pump here, so i souldnt tell u what top its got at the moment. I should have it 2mo, and as soon as i do, i'll let ya know / host some pics??
• #14 by rixy on 20 Apr, 2009 13:38
• no, the aaz pump does not have a screw in the top, its the joke one, and a late electronic one at that!! so no use at all..
  
  I've now got hold of a 1.9 N/A pump, and will be doing it to that instead.
  
  However, i marked the orientation of the throttle elver, on a removable washer in my haste, and now have no idea where to put it back?
  
  Also, i seem to have accidentally mixed the governors up, as they are slightly different, or will this not matter??
  
  Can i not, just turn the pump upside down, and cut the pin flush with the inside of the pump, to save tapping it out, and tapping a tread in, etc? or would i be better of doing it properly?
  
  here are some pics