What's considered "cold"

[Jettage1]

i think someone on here not to long ago actually figured out that it advances it by like roughly 27 degrees or something.

I think that's about right...I had the dial indicator in my IP set to zero with the lever "in".  I pulled it out just for kicks and the gauge moved to the upper 20's, IIRC.  27-30 sounds about right.

[rabbitman]

I think that's about right...I had the dial indicator in my IP set to zero with the lever "in". I pulled it out just for kicks and the gauge moved to the upper 20's, IIRC. 27-30 sounds about right.

Those numbers aren't degrees, that means .270inches of plunger lift, I think.
The 85-92 bentley actually says IIRC, 5 degrees advance and the 77-84 bentley says 2 or 2.5 degrees.

[rabbitman]

8v-of-fury wrote:
i think someone on here not to long ago actually figured out that it advances it by like roughly 27 degrees or something.

I think that's about right...I had the dial indicator in my IP set to zero with the lever "in". I pulled it out just for kicks and the gauge moved to the upper 20's, IIRC. 27-30 sounds about right.

Those numbers aren't degrees, that means .270inches of plunger lift, I think. Hopefully someone else chimes in.
The 85-92 bentley actually says IIRC, 5 degrees of advance and the 77-84 bentley says 2 or 2.5 degrees.

[8v-of-fury]

ohh.. ha ha that makes sense.. so .270" equals out to roughly 3 degrees.. that's pretty cool my badd lol

Amazing what 3-4 degrees will do eh??

[theman53]

according to vw you have to pull the advancing knob only after the engine is cranked. :arrow:

You mean like after its already running? doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Its called a cold "START" lever for a reason lol not a cold run lever. but hey, i guess vw knows best i find with mine set at 1.00 and with the lever out it starts and idles right after starting ALOT smoother then without using it.

Not really. I read my manual and it said that if its cold you want to turn the key to the cranking position. As it starts cranking then you pull the CS lever out. Instead of the way I usually do it which is pull the CS lever and start cranking.

[burn_your_money]

I pull mine out, cycle the plugs once and then start it.

I know that the mk1 manuals say to start the car with the lever in, and then pull it out once it is running, not sure about mk2s+.

It's a bad idea to leave your cold start pulled out all the time. The timing piston will smash into the cold start mechanism and create metal filings which can wear out the advance bore. It's best to just leave it out for as short of a time as necessary. If you are driving and not idling, it doesn't matter because the piston has already moved out of range of the timing advance.

The later mk2 pumps have the fast idle and you can push them in a bit and have no extra advance but still have the fast idle.

[rabbitman]

If you read hagars "saga", he says max advance is 24 degrees @ 5000 rpm.

[8v-of-fury]

So i just wanted to dig this thread up again... as i will be trying desperately to get my diesel going before the snow flies!! and drive it for this winter!!

I am going to be replacing GP's, Timing belt and tensioner, and pimping it a la Vince style while im in there.. What will be the best timing to set the pump too? I know many set n/a pumps to 1.00mm but i want to know what will be best for optimal starting and running. Maybe set it to 0.95mm so that way when i use the cold start it advances it to 1.00mm.. or even set it to 1.00mm and then it will advance to 1.05mm.. what should I do?

Also I can see now why it is said to pull it out after cranking, as too much advance causes the fuel to ignite at the wrong time working against the engine, causing slow and sluggishly battery killing starts! So keep it retarded for starting and then pull it out when it catches to advance it after the starter and battery are out of play. Sounds like a good method i will try. Also I will try the crank for a second, then hit the glows and see how that works on a separate run. Then together! lol should make it start like a TDI lol

I feel confident that even on some pretty cold starts this thing will be a monster winter mobile!

SO! Whats the OPTIMAL winter timing value? I have the tools and can change it in the spring if I like. Would like to go for performance whilst maintaining start-ability.

thanks a lot guys.

[wolf_walker]

There isn't a one size fits all answer for these motors(and injectors, and pumps, etc) after a few decades.
I can tell you my hyd head NA motor with a 107A pump timed at .98 or so with new duraterms fires instantly into
the mid 30's so far, cold start does nothing perceptable, never use it.  Experience says given good battery
it'll fire up fine down to way colder than we ever see here.  It rattles above idle cold, badly, so I let it warm up five minutes in the morning, no noise when warm.  Go figure.
What I'd prefer, is less base timing, more dynamic advance, and to use the cold start handle to get it where it is now
when cold for starting.  That's going to take some experimenting though.

[8v-of-fury]

There isn't a one size fits all answer for these motors(and injectors, and pumps, etc) after a few decades.
I can tell you my hyd head NA motor with a 107A pump timed at .98 or so with new duraterms fires instantly into
the mid 30's so far, cold start does nothing perceptible, never use it.  Experience says given good battery
it'll fire up fine down to way colder than we ever see here.  It rattles above idle cold, badly, so I let it warm up five minutes in the morning, no noise when warm.  Go figure.
What I'd prefer, is less base timing, more dynamic advance, and to use the cold start handle to get it where it is now
when cold for starting.  That's going to take some experimenting though.

I see, that is a very good answer. I was just wondering what would be the ideal spot though you know? like around factory timing? or a little advanced from that? How much is too much advanced? where does it start to be more bad than good? just a few curious thoughts i had.. lmao.

What do some of you have yours set at and what temps is your car starting in?

[wolf_walker]

These little motors are pretty vocal about timing in my experience, sometimes you can't hear it in the damn car they are so rattley and loud in general, but there is a marked difference between clattery diesel happyness and clattery diesel unhappyness.
To my knowledge and modest experience as much advance as you can get away with and things not sound bad, is good.
NA anyway, I'd want an EGT to fiddle with a turbo car too much, all that melting of metal and such.