Author Topic: Cold outside (Read 5305 times)

Rabbit TD · « **on:** January 16, 2009, 05:59:21 pm »

I just posted on the troubleshooting section by mistake so I thought I'd put it here too. It is now 0 outside here in Western Md. I haven't tred to start my 81 N/A Rabbit today and I don't think I ever had to start any of my diesel VW's in the past less than 20 Degrees. I'm pretty sure it would start though but I just didn't go out today. What I was wondering though is how you guys up North get along with these little diesels because I know it gets way colder up there than here. Obviously they have to be in pretty good shape to start and what kind of oils do yo need in those temps. How cold does it have to get before you definately need a block heater and things like that :?: I've always wondered about these kinds of things especially on these older diesels and I can't imagine what it must be like with the temps you all get, It's a wonder to me if you can even shift these things unless you let them idle for a half hour :roll: How bad does it actually get up there :?: :?:

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2009, 06:34:07 pm »

It is above freezing here right now but that is very uncommon for January.

I often run the old Jetta 30 to 40 below zero with no problems. The fuel is all #1 here this time of year, for the most part you do not have a choice on the fuel grade you can buy in the winter. If it is going to be very cold for a few weeks I will add power service fuel conditioner. I have never had any fuel gelling problems.

The car starts easily down to about 15f. Most of the time I use the block heater if the temperature gets much below freezing. It always starts easily with the block heater even in the most extreme temperatures.

I use the same 15/40 oil all year round in the current engine, but it has alot of miles on it. The new engine will probably get a full synthetic engine oil which is far less susceptible to thickening in the very cold weather.

The last trick is a large battery in good condition. I have a 1000CCA battery.

I also have a diesel pickup which reacts a little worse to the cold weather. The best remedy for it so far has been the combined use of the block heater and an aftermarket oil pan heater.

Rabbit TD · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2009, 06:49:59 pm »

Quote from: "Jasonsmack"

It is above freezing here right now but that is very uncommon for January.

I often run the old Jetta 30 to 40 below zero with no problems. The fuel is all #1 here this time of year, for the most part you do not have a choice on the fuel grade you can buy in the winter. If it is going to be very cold for a few weeks I will add power service fuel conditioner. I have never had any fuel gelling problems.

The car starts easily down to about 15f. Most of the time I use the block heater if the temperature gets much below freezing. It always starts easily with the block heater even in the most extreme temperatures.

I use the same 15/40 oil all year round in the current engine, but it has alot of miles on it. The new engine will probably get a full synthetic engine oil which is far less susceptible to thickening in the very cold weather.

The last trick is a large battery in good condition. I have a 1000CCA battery.

I also have a diesel pickup which reacts a little worse to the cold weather. The best remedy for it so far has been the combined use of the block heater and an aftermarket oil pan heater.

If I wasn't so damn lazy I would go out now and see if the Rabbit would start just out of curiosity, it's right around 0, I'll try him in the morning though

veedubcanuck · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2009, 07:45:55 pm »

Well here its around -6 Fahrenheit here. My 93 Jetta (aaz) still starts with no block heater and it has over 400,000 kms on it (Takes two tries) my 90 Jetta TD with 310,000 won't start. It tries but that's it. It will start at 5 Fahrenheit without the block heater but after that it is really tough. My 85 Golf N/A with 300,000 kms started at -6 Fahrenheit with a fight. and lastly my friends 84 Rabbit TD with 287,000 kms has NO hope of starting. It will start at around 10 Fahrenheit without the heater. All the cars are running 0w40 oil with new glow plugs.

the caveman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:51:19 am »

-19 oF the other day, glow plugs on twice, push in the clutch, crank until it's just about to catch, pull out the timing advance, and a bit of throttle. Sometimes it'll stall after a second or two. repeat above, never failed to start. 5-30 Total synthetic

veedubcanuck · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2009, 12:46:30 pm »

You mean -19 Celsius not Fahrenheit right??

the caveman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2009, 01:57:13 pm »

Aahh no. Fahrenheit .It was - 28 o C. you guys must have been about that temp also.no? It takes a while for it to get warm inside since my truck is a big empty box, but i have a diesel auxilliary heater !

jtanguay · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2009, 01:59:34 pm »

Quote from: "the caveman"

-19 oF the other day, glow plugs on twice, push in the clutch, crank until it's just about to catch, pull out the timing advance, and a bit of throttle. Sometimes it'll stall after a second or two. repeat above, never failed to start. 5-30 Total synthetic

i've heard that its not good to push in the clutch while starting.. something to do with premature failure of the bearings due to lack of oil pressure?

i've also heard of crank the engine over a few times just to squirt diesel onto the GP's, and then let them glow... and then start the motor. haven't been able to test it yet though...

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2009, 02:07:33 pm »

The application of a block heater doesn't have to be purely for starting reliability but for engine longevity.
I think I'm going to use my block heater until its probably 10C and greater just to be kind to the turbo and bearings and rings and other such parts that complain expensively if they have even 10 seconds of no oil (or very little)

the caveman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2009, 02:10:35 pm »

Well if you push the clutch in, the transmission won't turn, no bearing issue there. Less drag for the starter. I find it makes a difference. I don't see why you would crank it first, there should already have pressure in the injectors etc. The one trick i have heard of is to put on your headlamps for 2-3 seconds before cranking. Something about getting a big load through the battery cables before having the starter demanding it. Never tried it though.The only car i ever had trouble with was one of my friends 88 Digifant jetta. If you didn't keep cranking it until it started,forget it, the second crank would just flood it. Before i restored my 71 beetle, the colder the weather, the easier it would start.

the caveman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2009, 02:13:07 pm »

Quote from: "Smokey Eddy"

The application of a block heater doesn't have to be purely for starting reliability but for engine longevity.
I think I'm going to use my block heater until its probably 10C and greater just to be kind to the turbo and bearings and rings and other such parts that complain expensively if they have even 10 seconds of no oil (or very little)

That's the think with block heaters. It's not just that the car will start easier, it will really reduce the wear from waiting for all that cold oil to circulate.

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2009, 02:24:18 pm »

A nice synthetic oil will go a long ways to reducing wear as well. I tested some 5w-50 synthetic vs conventional 15w-40 in my deep freeze. After sitting overnight the synthetic still sloshed around about the same as it did at room temperature. The conventional oil took about 2 seconds before it even started pouring out of the jug. :shock:

I think the concern about starting with the clutch pushed in has nothing to do with the bearings in the transmission. It apparently will wear the thrust bearings much quicker. You have the full axial force acting on them with no lubricating oil. I'm not sure how much difference this is going to make though. :?

jtanguay · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2009, 02:46:42 pm »

Quote from: "cyrus #1"

A nice synthetic oil will go a long ways to reducing wear as well. I tested some 5w-50 synthetic vs conventional 15w-40 in my deep freeze. After sitting overnight the synthetic still sloshed around about the same as it did at room temperature. The conventional oil took about 2 seconds before it even started pouring out of the jug. :shock:

I think the concern about starting with the clutch pushed in has nothing to do with the bearings in the transmission. It apparently will wear the thrust bearings much quicker. You have the full axial force acting on them with no lubricating oil. I'm not sure how much difference this is going to make though. :?

ah yes thanks for the clarification... i just remember a thread by Jake a while back on why not to push the pedal in while starting, or while at a stop light. perhaps this only pertains to the older style motors, such as 1.5's and 1.6's, but not 1.9's?

the caveman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:48:42 pm »

I've never heard that. Why would there be any force if the motor and transmission were basically disconnected ? doesn't make sense to me.

Smokey Eddy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:41:27 pm »

I too notice a difference in starting if the pressure plate isn't being applied.