Author Topic: intake manifold (Read 5985 times)

Terrin · « **on:** January 10, 2009, 07:02:49 am »

I am trying to set the timing after the timing belt broke during operation. I've been using the following two websites as guides.

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

http://hanshowto.blogspot.com/2006/05/vw-golf-20l-timing-belt-replacement.html

After removing the flywheel green cap, I have the timing markets lined up. However, the timing markets are not lined up on what I believe is called the cam shaft sprocket (the large sprocket driving the timing belt). So, it appears the only way to get the flywheel and cam shaft sprocket markets lined up at the same time is to remove the camshaft cover and disengage the camshaft. Am I wrong?

If I am right, I, however, can't take off the camshaft cover because the upper intake manifold is in the way. The Chilton Manual makes it seem like it is a matter of removing several bolts, which I have done. Yet, the thing doesn't come off. ANy hints on how to remove this thing far enough off the cover of the camshaft?

the caveman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:06:54 am »

Yes the valve cover has to come off as the cam has to be "zero'd ". What manifold are you talking about, which motor do you have? Is it even a diesel and not a 2.0 gasser ?

Terrin · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2009, 05:48:34 pm »

Thank you for the reply. It is not a diesel. It is a 2.0. There is a series of hex bolts seemingly holding it down. I removed the ones in the front, and one in the back. There doesn't appear to be any others holding it on. It still doesn't budge.

Quote from: "the caveman"

Yes the valve cover has to come off as the cam has to be "zero'd ". What manifold are you talking about, which motor do you have? Is it even a diesel and not a 2.0 gasser ?

the caveman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:14:32 pm »

There are at least 4 or 6 in the back attaching a brace to the head.

Terrin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2009, 07:15:06 am »

THank you! I will look at that today or tomorrow. The Chilton book really is little help with this.

Quote from: "the caveman"

There are at least 4 or 6 in the back attaching a brace to the head.

the caveman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2009, 08:30:42 am »

I wrote the former post just before going to bed so my brain was turned off. Since you have a gasser, the cam does not need to be locked, so don't bother removing the manifold. Just use the mark on the face of the half moon plastic behind the cam gear. It has an "OT" mark and there is a recess mark on the gear. Then use the crank pulley markings. The other trick/problem with some 2.0 ABA motors is that ,after replacing the belt sometimes the distributor doesn't line up. Those motors do not have adjustable timing. If the distributor rotor doesn't line up perfectly, the CEL will come on and there will be a DTC. The trick is when you line up the crank and cam, also carefully line up the rotor so it centers at the mark on the top of the distributor housing [look for it, it's a small line machined into the top of the housing]. If you can't get it perfectly lined up with the belt and it sets off the check light, you will have to turn the distributor . Problem is that unless someone already did it, is that there are 2 small roll pins locating it in place. Remove the distributor clamp and bolt. You may see the 2 pins. Just get some vise grips and break them off. Then you can rotate and line up the distributor in relation to the cam and crank.
Just a warning, you may get bumped from this site as it is supposed to be diesel only.

Terrin · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2009, 01:17:55 pm »

Thanks for the reply. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information. My confusion is when I line up OT mark on the CAM gear the timing mark on the fly wheel become unaligned. I am using the crankshaft bolt to turn everything.

I am supposed to align the marks on the CAM gear and the marks on the flywheel at the same time, right or no?

I really hope I don't get bumped, as I do own a diesel Jetta that I bought after the Golf as well. The two cars are so similar that often the advice seems to be interchangeable.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2009, 02:42:09 pm »

Nah, many of us have a gasser in the garage as well.. good hedge against stupid commodity fuel pricing. :wink:

In this case the advice is *not* very interchangeable unfortunately. Our vintage of diesel has a cam sprocket without a keyway and key... the cam is infinitely adjustable against TDC... you just leave the cam sprocket loose, lock everything perfectly at TDC, and the tighten the camshaft bolt.

On the other hand a gasser's cam sprocket has a key and so the only way I can think of the cam mark *not* aligning with TDC on the crank is if the timing belt is not in the right teeth on the sprocket. By definition the marks are what you use when installing the belt.... the fine turning is done by rotating the distributor (old skool engine) or by the computer.

the caveman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:25:53 pm »

On the crank pulley there is a groove which lines up to an arrow on the timing cover. On the cam there is also a groove but square.It lines up to the "OT" mark on the cover behind the cam gear when the belt cover is removed. Then line up the distributor as i said before. Pay close attention to the tensioner and the direction it adjusts to. Some gasser tensioners turn down ;counterclock wise] rather than up [clock wise].

the caveman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:28:10 pm »

You can also use the marks at the flywheel. I kinda use both [ they have to be close at TDC] but prefer the flywheel.

Terrin · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2009, 06:38:26 pm »

THanks for the reply! Really. My car is in such disarray now, I am not sure I could hire somebody to fix it now if I don't figure it out.

I am going to try and get this done tomorrow and report back on my efforts.

One more questions (if you let me). Once you Line up CAM appropriately, do you remove the timing belt to turn the crank gear on the bottom to line up the flywheel (otherwise the CAM gear will move from being lined up when turning the Crank gear, right?)? Or do you keep the timing belt on, disregard the flywheel, and simply match the marks on the crank pulley?

I will pay attention to the distributor once I finally understand the how to line up the CAM, Crank, and FLywheel right.

Quote from: "the caveman"

On the crank pulley there is a groove which lines up to an arrow on the timing cover. On the cam there is also a groove but square.It lines up to the "OT" mark on the cover behind the cam gear when the belt cover is removed. Then line up the distributor as i said before. Pay close attention to the tensioner and the direction it adjusts to. Some gasser tensioners turn down ;counterclock wise] rather than up [clock wise].

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:16:23 pm »

Here's the way I time my 8v:

1. Remove the timing belt and leave it off until you line up the flywheel so that #1 is at TDC.

2. With #1 at TDC rotate the IM shaft until the marks line up. On mine there is a notch in the v-belt pulley that will approximately line up with a mark on the IM shaft pulley. (I'm not sure if yours will differ.)

3. Line up the camshaft sprocket. Use the OT marks just like Mr. Caveman suggested.

4. Wrestle the belt on and make sure that none of the pulleys are going to go out of time when you tighten the belt.

5. Put some tension on the idler pulley and tighten the nut. Rotate the idler clockwise (by hand, it doesn't need to be any tighter) so it doesn't back off when you snug the nut.

6. Rotate the engine 2 times by hand using the crank sprocket. This is an easy way to ensure you haven't made any valve bending errors.

7. Re-assemble and drive away.

In my experience, there is a bit of leeway with the distributor. As long as you have the rotor in roughly the right direction it should run. A couple of degrees either way won't make or break you.

the caveman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:42:59 pm »

Put the cam at the spot-TDC. Turn the crank till the flywheel marks line up,crank TDC. Look at the distributor and line up the rotor so it's at the center of the mark on the edge of the distributor. Put the belt on the crank pulley. Keep tension by pulling on both sides of the belt. Don't be too rough, the motor will turn easily. Then put the front edge of the at the intermediate pulley[ that's what turns the distributor ]. Check at the flywheel for the mark. You can still move the motor, but that's okay. You are now keeping the crank and intermediate in time . Now pull up the belt and slide it onto the cam pulley. Don't worry for now if it seems to off a tooth or two. Then get the other side of the belt around the tensioner. See if everything lines up. If it seems close, tighten the tensioner a bit so it pulls everything just a little tight.

BE CAREFUL -the tensioner probably tightens by turning it up clockwise on the stud.
HOWEVER some gas motors have tensioners which go counterclock wise. If so it will have an arrow on the bearing edge.

If it's off by more than a tooth, leave the belt on everything, but the cam gear. That being said you will probably also have to pull it the tensioner.
BE PATIENT. You may have to do it a couple of times, but it really isn't too difficult unless you're a complete spaz like my friend Mario. Don't ever let him near a screwdriver. It's carnage.
Once it all lines up, tighten the tensioner until you can just twist the timing belt 90 degrees without forcing it. Do this where the belt is between the cam pulley and intermediate pulley. Turn the crankshaft[ turning over all the
motor components] at least 3 complete turns CLOCKWISE. Check the timings marks again, reline if nesessary. if okay again check the belt tension again. Don't forget what i said on an earlier post about the distributor. It really has to be dead center for it not to make the check light come on.

Good luck !

the caveman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:45:12 pm »

Cryus, i guess we were writing at the same time.

Terrin · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:06:48 pm »

Thanks for the replies guys. I live in Michigan and it is negative 20 out. I don't have a heated garage, so it may be a few days until I try these things. I really appreciate the input.