Rough idle/ no start

[ezekiel]

I bought a 1.6td from vwmotors.  So far, it hasn't ever really run.  Easiest way for me to explain where i'm at is if i just list what i know.

Cranked alot to try and get fuel to the injectors, didn't work so well.  I had filled the pump with ATF prior to trying to get the lines from the tank primed again.  Eventuall i gave up and put a hose on the out on the pump and sucked the fuel up.

Engine timing is correct, as i replaced the belt prior to trying to start it.  Pump timing checked at 1.0.

I suspected injectors, so i pulled them.  They were rusty.  Replaced injectors with the 1.6na that i pulled to replace, put in new aaz nozzles, since 2 were burnt from old engine.  Blew out lines to be safe.

I finally got some atf/fuel to dribble out of the lines, but not much.

No fuel coming oit of the return line.

I pulled the pump after i checked the timing again since i know it's something in there.  

When i pulled the pump, there was alot of pressure built up, it was dribbling fuel out the in banjo bolt when i took the feed line off (was from the pump, not the line)

Since there was rust in the injectors, i feel like there was probably rust in the pump.  Maybe it clogged the out side?

It did turn on a couple times, but vibration was worse than the dead 1.6na i took out.  It would not rev, if i tried it would either do nothing (WOT, still at idle revs) or it would shake and die.  If i let it sit it would shake and die.

Thanks guys.

[ezekiel]

bit the bullet and opened up the pump last night

after taking the head/plunger and camplate out, there's a nice puddle of rusty gunk at the bottom, I think the ATF/diesel loosened it all up.

damage I can see:

camplate rollers have some rust spots, haven't looked super close to see if they're salvageable, but I may have some from another pump.

camplate has some rust/worn looking spots, same as rollers above.

the insides of the deliver valves have rust coloring, but the fuel was clear (possible because the rust was all injected into the injectors, thus why they were completely rusted.



still can't figure out why I had high internal pump pressure, maybe the internal pressure valve is fuggared?  haven't opened the pump that far back yet, I need my triangle socket to get here.

the output restriction valve was clear, no rust in the mesh.

 :x  :x  :x

[jtanguay]

that sounds about right for a pump that was let sit dry, or semi dry... or even if there was water in the fuel & the pump was let sit for a while.

[ezekiel]

used engine, probably sat in a yard or on a dock for a little while, it's not totally gunked like the pics of one that was floating around here, rust is only the some of the ground surfaces, at the very least, the pump body is good to go.

but yeah, most likely sat dry.

[ezekiel]

so I pulled the pump, resealed and cleaned it.  Found the vanes on the vane rotor were stuck.  So I cleaned them, they moved really nice, put the whole pump back together and nothing.

Noticed there was some air in the clear line.  So I pulled the line and put it in a bottle of ATF.  no ATF is getting sucked up.  So my vane pump isn't working still.

I wonder if I should pull the pump and replace the vane rotor, or add a lift pump.

[8v-of-fury]

rig up a small lift pump and push the full in to the pump to see if maybe it's having a hard time.. dont go crazy and do a permanent install lol, but see if that will work before going back in to the pump again.. save you some time if it works lol

[jtanguay]

so I pulled the pump, resealed and cleaned it.  Found the vanes on the vane rotor were stuck.  So I cleaned them, they moved really nice, put the whole pump back together and nothing.

Noticed there was some air in the clear line.  So I pulled the line and put it in a bottle of ATF.  no ATF is getting sucked up.  So my vane pump isn't working still.

I wonder if I should pull the pump and replace the vane rotor, or add a lift pump.

the pump has to be full of fuel to be primed. in your situation, i would buy a priming bulb and use that.  if you've free'd up the vanes, it should eventually develop pressure at least...  it might not fire up, but it should develop the pressure!

[ezekiel]

the pump was filled with ATF before I installed it, then I sucked fuel through it via a clear hose on the out banjo.  The pump was definitely full, and the feed line was full as well with no air.  Lots of cranking and I finally got the injector lines purged.  It makes a nice "i want to start" sound, that's when I noticed air in the feed line.

To eliminate the possibility that the filter bolts were leaking I put the clear hose banjo into a bottle of ATF, it would not suck the fuel out of the bottle at all.

Autozone has a lift pump for $30, i'll give that a shot unless anyone has any other ideas.