Author Topic: 1.6TD to 1.9TD - noobie questions (Read 6957 times)

Jasonsmack · « **on:** December 30, 2008, 05:24:14 pm »

Is is possible?

I have a well worn 1991 Jetta with the 1.6TD. It have lived a very long live but now uses alot of oil, and unfortunately it is coming from the engine and not the turbocharger.

I was wondering if it is remotely possible to transplant a 1.9TD into the car?

The reason is; I have one of them that needs rebuilding but it it missing a few parts. I was hoping to get one engine ready while still being able to drive the car. Then once everything is all ready on the 1.9 I would swap it into the car and not have a whole bunch of down time. I believe the 1.9 is out of a 1996 Passat.

I did a search but it did not direct me to a relevant thread. The search engines on these forums always seem to be somewhat limited.

If anybody has any experience please chip in here.

Thanks.

TurboJ · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2008, 05:57:25 pm »

It's a 100% bolt-on job.

All you need is the engine mounts and gearbox / clutch out of your 1.6 TD - otherways it's all just plug and play. Even the wires will hook up the same.

A helpful hint is to check the type and condition of the turbos in both of these engines - later 1.9s came with smaller turbos that aren't as good in making power. So if you wish, you can use your 1.6 turbocharger on the 1.9.

Also depending on the version, the 1.9 might have a non-LDA equipped injection pump. In this case, again you should use the 1.6 injection pump.

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2008, 06:19:55 pm »

Quote from: "TurboJ"

It's a 100% bolt-on job.

All you need is the engine mounts and gearbox / clutch out of your 1.6 TD - otherways it's all just plug and play. Even the wires will hook up the same.

A helpful hint is to check the type and condition of the turbos in both of these engines - later 1.9s came with smaller turbos that aren't as good in making power. So if you wish, you can use your 1.6 turbocharger on the 1.9.

Also depending on the version, the 1.9 might have a non-LDA equipped injection pump. In this case, again you should use the 1.6 injection pump.

Thankyou, that is pretty good news for me. I know the engines look very similar but you never know until you try it or ask somebody else. I have limited time at home so this swap will save me alot of time, hassle and maybe net the Jetta a little more power as well. The old car has done very well, it is just over 600,000kms (375,000 miles) now.

I am unsure of what the non-LDA injection pump means? The 1.9 does have the pump, lines and injectors intact. The injection pumps from the two engines look substantially different.

The 1.9 is missing the exhaust manifold and turbocharger. The intake manifold is still there. I was planning on finding an extra manifold and turbocharger and following through with a rebuild on the turbo if I was not able to get my hands on a rebuilt or new one. Maybe it is practical to install a T-3, they sure are getting cheap with all the offshore/asian competition. What do you guys think?

TurboJ · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2008, 07:06:02 pm »

Here's what a proper turbodiesel injection pump looks like:

http://www.tstproducts.com/images/ve_pump1.jpg

On the right side picture, the 'smoke adjustment screw' is attached to the LDA, i.e. boost enrichment device.
It's that mushroom-shaped thing on top of the pump that you want to have.
That allows fuel to be added as boost builds - a so called 'eco turbodiesel' doesn't have this feature and thus has genereally much lower performance.
I recommend you use the pump that has the LDA

Rabbit TD · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2008, 07:12:11 pm »

I think you would like the 1.9 better and if you are going to rebore you are already bigger to start with than the 1.6 would be if it was bored. I've never personaly ever dealt with any of the 1.9 stuff but from what I read here it must be like the older small block Chevrolets {everything bolts together} and they did and I'm sure these do too

This is the place to find out. The LDA is that [mushroom looking thing] on top of the pump with 4 scews on the corners and an adjuster in the middle. It has a little line on it like the injector return lines are made of which connects to the intake manifold where it sends boost pressure back to the pump and makes the pump put out more fuel for the extra boost. I know VW had some engines that had a turbo with no LDA type pump which had a little less power but a little better mileage {ECO-DIESEL} for economy. These people here can give you information for the combination of pump and turbo you want wether it's more power or the best mileage. Me, I'm a hog and want both

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2008, 07:13:57 pm »

The 1.6TD pump has the boost enrichment device. The pump on the other, I am unsure. They are certainly different pumps in appearance. I will be heading back down to the shop and I will take a picture and post it if I can not figure it out myself.

Thanks again.

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2008, 11:11:33 pm »

The two injection pumps are indeed the same. The one from the 1.9 looks like it had some of the linkage/throttle parts cannibalized. That should be no big deal by the look of it.

The valve cover on the 1.9 engine is missing, I will have to check my storage rental and make sure it is not in there but I am pretty sure it is gone. The block is going to need to be bored out. There are serious scratches and a bit of rust from sitting. The scratches are there from the upper compression rings failing on all the pistons. The story I got on the engine is that the turbo pooped and the engine "took off" running on the engine oil. I knew the engine turned very tight by hand and was afraid that the engine had been run right out of oil but it was only the ring damage that made the engine turn hard. I was happy to see that the crank and rods in very good condition. The cylinder head is in very poor condition, with exception to the camshaft itself. The lifters are wiped out on the valve side, the guides and valves are also toast. No big deal, I have the technology to repair all that myself.

I think I will go ahead and start to rebuild the 1.9TD. I just need to locate a few missing parts as I work through it all. I sure would like to have all the parts for the 1.9 so I can leave the 1.6 assembled. As I said, I am hoping to do a "swap" of the complete long block with the fuel system installed. I was also hoping to keep the 1.6TD assembled until it moves on in life to its next home, probably an ex-Canadian military Iltis jeep.

If there is anything else you guys can point me in the direction to help my project to move forward please let me know. Thanks.

Jason

TurboJ · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2008, 03:41:04 am »

That sounds like a plan!
Perhaps you should look into some minor port/polish work on the cylinder head while you're at it - you know, sooner or later you're going ot want to turn up the boost and fuel...

Just post on here if you have any questions - someone will always reply, and it's a friendly bunch of people on here.

Good luck with the project!

dillenger1 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2008, 04:39:46 am »

turboj is right.if your gonna be hanging around here then i would plan for performance mods ahead of time.Youll be happier later on.

dillenger1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2008, 04:40:05 am »

double post!

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2008, 10:00:58 am »

It is actually my mothers car, but I doubt that will stop me from the tweaking and massaging on the engine. I was already hoping to add an intercooler and some porting and polishing.

I own/drive truck right now as my main occupation but I am also a journeyman mechanic. My part time job is operating a Superflow901 engine dynamometer in a small performance engine shop here where I live. Performance is in my blood, as is the diesels. I have a 1978 300D Benz and a 1996 GMC with the 6.5TD. The GMC is highly modified. The Benz was bought new by my grandfather and I will be restoring it, with a newer 300SD turbocharged engine that I already have.

I will keep you guys posted on my progress. I am sure it will be a little scattered and drag out due to my work schedule.

vanbcguy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2008, 12:33:55 pm »

I've got a Mk III that has had the opposite swap done - I've got a 1.6TD where a 1.9TD should be. So yes, it's definitely do-able!

burn_your_money · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2008, 01:04:29 pm »

As mentioned, 100% possible.

In order to get the exhaust to work, use a K14, T2, T3 or K24. Don't use the K03. Then you just bolt the 1.6 downpipe onto the turbo and that's done.
If you aren't planning on pushing more then 20 psi, stick with a smaller turbo. The K14 is nice. It's bigger then the K03 and T2 but not as big as the K24 and T3.

If you have power steering, just swap the lines to the 1.9 pump. You'll need to modify the pressure side slightly, but it's pretty easy.

Upgrade the crankshaft while you are at it to the TDI style.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2008, 01:14:07 pm »

One other hint... the wiring is not entirely plug-and-play, but don't let it freak ya out.

The AAZ engine uses the standard MK3 big black circular multiconnector bolted near the coolant flange for everything, including two surprisingly thin wires for the glowplugs. The IP may have some extra switches and valves that can safely be ignored. The alternator D+/W connector is different as well.

However, like most diesels, the circuits themselves are very straightforward and with a little splicing you'll be on your way.

Jasonsmack · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:24:13 pm »

I am having some difficulty figuring out what exhaust manifold and turbocharger I should be searching for. Can you guys give me some direction please?

I really do not know what the 1991 1.6TD would have had for a turbocharger, and I do not know if the manifold from the 1.9 AAZ would be identical or not. From what I understand from reading they would interchange, but does that mean that they are the same? Do the manifolds and turbochargers attach with three or four bolts? I seem to be finding some pictures and descriptions of both and I am not sure why...

I would like to find an exhaust manifold and turbocharger that I can put on the 1.9 and leave the parts alone on the 1.6.