Author Topic: Side motor mount bracket help (Read 7596 times)

TD_Bunny · « **on:** December 02, 2008, 10:33:48 am »

Okay, I just got in the 1.7L from caveman and I am getting ready to start putting on some new parts when I ran into a bit of a snag and need some help on.

The side motor mount bracket the 1.7L has on it is identical in size and bolt alignment as my 1.6L with two exceptions. There is an O-Ring behind the 1.7L to seal part of the block whereas the 1.6L bracket i am comparing it to does not accomodate such a seal. Now, that much can be overlooked if i can figure out how to get around the second difference. On the1.6L bracket the motor mount is attached but on the 1.7L bracket there is none.

Do i need to get a motor mount for a 1.9L?? Do they mount to the engine differently? Like i said the bracket sizes and bolt slots are the same but i need to figure out what i need to get the side motor mount on. Cant wait to get the engine in though. I have not decided really to put it in my 83TD or a 84D i got that only had 75k miles on it. I got all new parts (ac comp, alt, starter, IP, water pump, oil cooler, etc) so i just need some help from you guys to get me going

here is the picture of the 1.6L bracket i have(brand new pretty much came out of the 84)

and here are two pictures of the 1.7L bracket. you can see the small dome where the o-ring is at. I have not looked at a 1.9L to know if this is the same.

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2008, 12:54:12 pm »

should i put this in the IDI section?

Quantum TD · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2008, 01:39:03 pm »

What does the O-ring do? Anything? I can't think of a reason for it, unless the 1.7 has a mysterious hole into the block at that point. I'd say, just use your Rabbit motor mount bracket.

IIRC, the 1.7 only came in the Vanagon, that's why it lacks the side mount. Also, IIRC, the 1.7 is basically a 1.6 block for all intents and purposes. So, just swap the brackets.

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2008, 01:40:14 pm »

yeah, actually it does :?

right where that dome is there is a hole with the O-ring sealing it.

Quantum TD · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2008, 01:41:22 pm »

Quote from: "TD_Bunny"

yeah, actually it does :?

right where that dome is there is a hole with the O-ring sealing it.

So there's an acutal hole into the block there? What does it do?

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2008, 01:51:46 pm »

based on inspection it is where the coolant is. Might need someone else who owns one to chime in on why they designed it that way. really odd. I really dont mind it so long as i can figure out how to get the mounting bracket on there i need.

*edit*
just got done reading in the bentley under the engine removal section and it mentioned some older engines did not have a right motor mount. is this mount necessary?

Quantum TD · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:27:20 pm »

If you're gonna put this in a Rabbit, I don't see how you can install it without a pass-side mount of some sort. The front and rear mounts just prevent rocking. They are not meant to support the motor.

As for the hole, I'd be curious to see it. Looking at the bump in the bracket, vs. the ridge in the Mk1 bracket, it defintitely looks deliberate, and the bracket is clearly different than the Mk1 AND the Mk2 bracket (which, on the surface, looks similar).

That's pretty kooky. The only thing I can think of, is that the block is based on some other VW/Audi block that had an integrated water pump in the block: say like, an Audi 2-liter block.

I think your only solution is:

1) To find some sort of freeze plug to put in the hole.

2) Weld the MK1 mount ring to the 1.7 bracket.

or
3) Weld a MK2 style mount-support bracket to the inner frame of your Rabbit, and put the rear-style mount onto the block.

I think option 1 would be the best place to start, then try option 2 if that doesen't work.

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:58:23 pm »

yeah it does seem fairly odd and deliberate at that. that little ridge on the MK1 bracket just HAD to keep going. As far as option 1, the hole is sort of elongated so i dont see the freeze plug option working. I have plenty of people arount that can weld though so it seems that will be my option. Too bad though with everything else matching up so perfectly who would have thought something like this could be a problem. If i get a chance i will take a shot of the hole and post so you can see.

Couldnt i also just flatten part of the 1.6L bracket ridge until is was smooth to seal it?

Can anyone shed any light on the side hole and maybe any other VW block that has it? I need to see if i can get another o-ring while i am at it. the current one is okay but i might as well try and replace it while i have the chance. just curious now

Quantum TD · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:38:27 pm »

Yeah. super funky. I've never seen or heard of anything like that. I'd say weld the block, but it's too close to the #1 bore. It just seems like a real stupid design. Are there even any bolt holes around the perimeter of the hole so that you could mount something there, or is it just a hole? I really can't see why you'd need to 'heat' the IP bracket. Stupid.

Quantum TD · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:42:49 pm »

I was just playing on VagCat and found an image of the block:

http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/T2/1988/78/49/880254/

You'll need a vagcat account to view it.

Here's the part number for the O-Ring. It looks like 1stvwparts may be able to get it. Sometimes they show available, even though the part really is not available.

Anyway, here's the PN

N 90250201

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2008, 09:27:01 pm »

hey thanks a lot!

I made an account there to take a look. I wonder how much it will cost to ship that little gasket to the states lol. I know someone who is pretty good at fabricating and am going to see if he can get the motor mount attached to the 1.7L.

I wish there were bolts to just seal it. Someone here has to have an idea of this design

Quantum TD · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2008, 11:57:08 pm »

Quote from: "TD_Bunny"

hey thanks a lot!

I made an account there to take a look. I wonder how much it will cost to ship that little gasket to the states lol. I know someone who is pretty good at fabricating and am going to see if he can get the motor mount attached to the 1.7L.

I wish there were bolts to just seal it. Someone here has to have an idea of this design

I think your best bet is to try your local VW dealer, or try www.1stvwparts.com. They're the cheapest around, but if you're only buying the seal, shipping will outweigh the cost difference if you just bought it from your dealer.

Quote

Couldnt i also just flatten part of the 1.6L bracket ridge until is was smooth to seal it?

As for a solution: I think I've got a good idea that will be structurally sound, and simpler to do:

If it were me, I'd fill-weld the back side groove of the MK1 bracket in the area where the hole is. The MK1 bracket only has the ridge to add strength and rigidiity to a relatively thin piece of metal (later 1.9 motors used 3/8 inch thick cast iron for the bracket). So, adding more metal to the back would make it even stronger.

Then, mill the surface flat at your local CNC machinist (or do it yourself with some grinding wheels). I just think the mill-job would make a nice smooth mating surface for the o-ring.

I guess the only issue to this idea, would be if there is a recess on the back of the 1.7 bracket that accepts the o-ring, or is the recess in the block? I'd need to see a pic of each. But, knowing how f-ing cheap/lazy VW is, I really doubt that they milled a stamped piece of metal (the 1.7 bracket), so the likely spot for a recess to accept the O-Ring will be in the block. You would be good to go with that setup. I'd probably slather some hi-temp silicone on the outside of the O-ring mating surface, just for added piece of mind.

Let me know what you think.

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:33:14 am »

yes the recess is in the block which is why i think the bracket was the same mold the exception of the that small dome.

I am going to get more pictures of this by this weekend so everyone can get a better idea. thanks for the help.

*update* got a couple of the seals ordered here in town for $4 a piece. Spoke with the parts guys and he said the corrado engine (1.8l) and some of the passats have the same design for the coolant hole. odd.

TD_Bunny · « **Reply #13 on:** December 07, 2008, 03:27:50 pm »

Okay I am getting the piece off of the bracket welded on to the 1.7L bracket this coming up weekend so i will post some pictures on the progress of that as soon as i can. Something i am wondering, however, is since the 1.7L does not have the small rectangular hole for the ring to slightly recess in will sticking out an extra ~2-4mm from the bracket cause problems?

I am thinking the clearances can not be that precise but just wondering anyones thoughts on the matter. Still wondering if anyone accustomed to the 1.8L in the corrado can give some inside on why this hole into the coolant system was placed where it is as i see no benefit unless there is some other application where this hole is used with a differenct bracketing system.

here is a link to side motor mount for the corrado but i can not tell how this bolts on. wishful thinking i suppose but it showed potential if i can see where the mounting bolts go.
http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=191199262A

burn_your_money · « **Reply #14 on:** December 07, 2008, 07:45:15 pm »

Quote from: "TD_Bunny"

Spoke with the parts guys and he said the corrado engine (1.8l) and some of the passats have the same design for the coolant hole. odd.

Yeah the G60 motor.

Check out this guys solution
http://sciroccog60.blogspot.com/