Author Topic: AAZ pump timing for an mTDI (Read 11457 times)

monkey magic · « **on:** November 19, 2008, 09:10:16 am »

Hi all,

I know the AAZ pump needs advancing to overcome the delay from TDi injectors higher opening pressure when used as an mTDI pump.

But:

What sort of advance are you guys setting to run well?

I know using an unmodded AAZ pump is not ideal for an mTDi but I have had a quote off Giles, and can't afford a superpump until the new year :cry:, and need to get my project up and running fairly soon.

Also, is it safe to say that all the common 'external' AAZ pump tweaks (govener mod, LDA mod, etc) help with the above?

Any help is appreciated, there must be a few people out there running mTDi's this way?

Cheers, Monkey Phil

SR Heer · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2008, 11:29:33 pm »

From what I have read the AAZ pump alone is not adequate to run a TDI engine because the BAR injector pressures needed are about double of that for which the AAZ pump was designed for - so one has to modify - combine - the TDI fly by wire pump and the AAZ pump to accomplish the increased need for higher injector breaking pressures

jtanguay · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2008, 11:57:29 pm »

what i would recommend is timing by ear... and changing the the timing advance piston spring to a softer one. this will give you more advance.

the timing curve of the TDI is quite a bit different than on the IDI as you might already know. someone posted some timing numbers of what the TDI is @ 2k rpm..

so if you compare TDI advance @ 2k rpm vs IDI @ 2k rpm, you get the idea... this is where having a timing light adaptor for diesel would really come in handy. i've seen Giles' tinytach and that thing is sweet!!! i bought a ferret one and it sucks

although it could be the brand new timing light i bought...

monkey magic · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2008, 03:54:12 am »

Cheers guys,

it might be a non issue for me now, I have a DI pump off a 2.8 (no LDA tho :cry: ) .

If i cant get that to work i will be back on the aaz route. I like the softer spring, never even considered modding the advance curve (wouldnt have known how, i have VERY limited knowledge of injection pumps!)

@ SR:

I understand about needing to mod the pump with TDi pump components to do it properly, but I know with enough 'static' advance and max fueling, an aaz pump will run a TDi engine, so it is a cheap short term method for getting my van running again.

I'll post how i get on with the 2.8 DI pump, should arrive this week.

Cheers

blackdogvan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2008, 03:57:47 pm »

Hey MM,

Any issues fitting the rover VE on the tdi/AAZ mutant?
Good luck with the LDA, 11 or 12mm BTW?

monkey magic · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2008, 04:20:24 pm »

hi blackdogvan,

'issues fitting the rover VE' ? I don't have a rover unit, but was considering getting one when I read oldskool rich's thread about doing the same.

I heard off somebody else today that the rover is a good option. Dont have the funds to buy one just yet tho

I saw the LDA less pump on ebay for a song (its off a fiat ducato 2.

, and jumped on it before i realised it was for a Di and not a TDi. If it will run, I'll live with it and research getting a new top end or grafting an lda on from another pump :shock:

should be fun.

snakemaster · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2008, 04:28:30 pm »

Quote from: "monkey magic"

hi blackdogvan,

'issues fitting the rover VE' ? I don't have a rover unit, but was considering getting one when I read oldskool rich's thread about doing the same.

I heard off somebody else today that the rover is a good option. Dont have the funds to buy one just yet tho

I saw the LDA less pump on ebay for a song (its off a fiat ducato 2., and jumped on it before i realised it was for a Di and not a TDi. If it will run, I'll live with it and research getting a new top end or grafting an lda on from another pump :shock:

should be fun.

that di pump with no lda should work ok(far beter than the aaz) , some pumps di ones ie transit have a sort of lda , same as the perkins prima non turbo , which limet the travel of the control leaver pan in the ass .
have you got a pic and no of this pump

monkey magic · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2008, 04:46:22 pm »

hi snakemaster,

i'll try and upload a pic, i wont have any numbers until it arrives.

Just been reading your other response on the other thread,

I think from what i've read this pump is an iveco jobby (off an 02 fiat van)

I do prefer the idea of starting out with a tdi pump, Will be looking for power in the long term, but short term i just want to make my van run again.. it's been off the road too long

monkey magic · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2008, 05:27:04 pm »

here is a pic from the isting of the 2.8 pump. They look a little too professional to me, so I wont believe this is the exact pump until it arrives...

Supposed to be from a 2.8 Fiat Ducato, 2002

...

Tintin · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2008, 05:27:12 pm »

This pump on the pic rotate the right way.

monkey magic · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2008, 06:50:15 pm »

Hi guys,

i never even considered the direction of rotation, thank you tintin, glad to hear it is correct.

The pump arrived today, I just unwrapped it, but need to have a proper look tomorrow when I am fully awake. I have lots of questions.

Prothe, when you say the main shaft, the piece you see in the picture appears to unbolt from the actual shaft. I'll post up some pictures when I get to have a play.

The code on this pump is:

0460 494 466

Does anybody have any information onthis pump that would help ?

Cheers, Monkey Phil

snakemaster · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2008, 01:22:33 pm »

most tdi pumps are 10-11mm head that one going on the number there is a 9mm same as a aaz pump, that bit with the splines will unbolt , is this pump going on to a 1Z if so the pully may be out off aline the stub lookes a bit short , but you wount no untill you try to fit

monkey magic · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2008, 02:37:07 pm »

Its going on an ahu (same as 1z), I will take the pump to work with me tomorrow (where the engine is at the moment) and compare. I can see me still buying an aaz (or a disco) pump and sending this fiat pump to giles in the new year...

snakemaster · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2008, 06:12:25 pm »

ahu has a diffrant pully so may fit spot on, there is diffrant offset hubs ie of disco and ahu pully should bolt on to that , that pump you have there may have a nice cam plate in it to sute a tdi , the lda id no big deel anyways may be a bit smoker up the rev range , thats what i have found trying both tops on my mtdi pump

Tintin · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2008, 08:58:31 am »

0 460 494 466 = Iveco, fiat renault, 2.8L IDI engine.

The came plate in it is a ''432'' one, It's aproximately the same as AAZ cam plate.

Unfortunately this pump is not better than a 1.6 D pump........ sorry.