mtdi pump question and theories - mTDI Mechanical TDI Conversions - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• mtdi pump question and theories by voodoo on 29 Oct, 2008 00:00
• can I bolt a not turbo 1.6 idi pump directly to a 1.9 tdi motor and delete the turbo and computer pump from an e-tdi 1.9 ahu and expect it to work?  I dont care if it is slow I just want it to run.  
  
  will the belt line up if I just swap out the 1.9 computer pump and replace with the 1.6L idi pump and pully?
  
  as a not turbo 1.9 mtdi would not have boost could I reduce the opening pressure for the injectors so as to not worry about breaking an idi pump?
  
   a not turbo mtdi or m-di would not need a 10mm 0r 11mm head for fuel to keep up with a turbo and would run cooler with less fuel so a 9mm 1.6L head would be ok?
  
  why no turbo? because I am paranoid about the old exploding compressor wheel trick and the shortage of tdi motors.
  
  the car has to compete with a geo metro for power turbo not important.
• #1 by rallydiesel on 29 Oct, 2008 00:23
• Try it. If you reduced the injector pop pressures it might work or it might not. If it does run it will probably run like crap with lots of grey smoke and not start easily at all.
• #2 by jtanguay on 29 Oct, 2008 00:55
• Quote from: "prothe"

  Interesting idea about lowering the opening pressure of the TDI injectors.  I've been wondering about that, too.

  
  
  get a pressure tester and experiment.  when the injector fails to properly atomize the fuel, then that is the lowest pressure you can go.  i'm sure the VW engineers have increased the pressure just to be on the safe side and to compensate for poor fuel... let us know of the results, please!  
  
  and about the head size, i'm pretty sure Giles has some tricks to make a 9mm head act like a 10mm or even 11mm.  probably a hard concept to swallow, but i think dave (935racer) had his jetta running nearly 200hp with a 9mm head & Giles pump.  someone correct me if i'm wrong though...
• #3 by Tintin on 29 Oct, 2008 18:04
• I think the guy only want to put the pump on his engine and run with it, he do not ask ''how to built a M-TDI pump''
  
  Yes the 1.6Pump bolt onto the TDI bracket, and you will have to use the 1.6 pump pulley too, pulley aligment is not 100% exact, but It's ok,  and maxed With .216 nozzle,  the fueling at the max on the pump, It's ok.
  
  Making a 9mm head pushing the same pressure as 10mm head with his original came-plate is really too easy,  you only have to play with a more aggressive came-plate than the 10mm and voila.....  exept that the fueling capability become lower.
  
  Since there is not much came-plate more aggressive than the TDI one, It's more easy to play with bigger head.
  
  For IDI engine It's another game, much more easy because there is a lot of came-plate choice.........
• #4 by voodoo on 29 Oct, 2008 19:17
• thank you for your responses
  
  there is a  1.9L diesel  sold in europe that is just like the tdi but no turbo, said to be really gutless, I don't care.
  
  I am just simplifying and trying to reduce the number of things that could fail.  I want a car that lasts.
  
  I would build a 1.6L but I don't like precups.
  
  I build computers for a living and I sure dont want one running my car hence the desire for m-tdi or m-di
  
  I have 5 1.6L idi no turbo pump cores but no tdi or 4bt pumps
  
  list of kiss fixes includes:
  
  erg block off
  turbo delete
  change out hydraulic lifters every 75k miles
  change timing belt often
  change oil every 3k miles if it needs it or not
• #5 by zukgod1 on 31 Oct, 2008 11:08
• Quote from: "jimfoo"

  I remember reading MANY times on here that the 1.6 bracket is needed for a 1.6 IP on a 1.9, and now I am reading that this isn't so. Which is right?

  
  
  I though it had something to do with the snout length?
  
  Maybe not though. I was kinda thinking the 1.6 pump would just bolt on but I haven't had the opportunity to try.
  
  I'm hoping to get a TDI first of next year and turn it into a MTDI for my mk2.
  Actually looking for a second chassis to build up possibly. I damn near have enough parts to build another car already. 1.6 TD and trans sitting here, complete interior etc etc.
• #6 by rallydiesel on 31 Oct, 2008 18:18
• I would like build a temporary mtdi pump before I can afford a Giles rebuild. The one thing I need info on is the throttle lever assembly. I have an AAZ pump and can do the cam plate and rotor head swap myself but I don't know what to do with the throttle lever.
  
  Does this have to be modified or is there a part that can be swapped in? If it needs to be modded, can anyone give an explanation of what needs to be done?
  
  Thanks.
• #7 by RabbitGTDguy on 31 Oct, 2008 18:59
• rally diesel. I'll post a picture or PM you later on. TinTin may chime in as well. Though, there are a couple of threads that do directly detail "what" needs to be done to have it work properly. They just tend to get buried. I believe it is in the IP FAQ as well.
  
  Joe
• #8 by burn_your_money on 31 Oct, 2008 19:18
• Let's try and keep it civil please.
  
  For those just tuning in, if the quotes don't make sense or the flow of this thread seems a little weird, it's because 50% of it was deleted.
  
  Off topic: The feedback section only covers private transactions made between members on this board, unless someone is out to scam people. Significant proof must be provided, from several sources and even then it may not make the scammers list. We do not want to attempt to moderate the internet.
  A new section has been added to the feedback section, feel free to check it out. Most of the threads linked to in the feedback section are still open, so feel free to add more information to them even though they are old
  
  Hopefully this helps, and as always input on the feedback system or anything else on the board is appreciated. Please do so through IM
• #9 by jimfoo on 31 Oct, 2008 19:44
• Quote from: "rallydiesel"

  I would like build a temporary mtdi pump before I can afford a Giles rebuild. The one thing I need info on is the throttle lever assembly. I have an AAZ pump and can do the cam plate and rotor head swap myself but I don't know what to do with the throttle lever.
  
  Does this have to be modified or is there a part that can be swapped in? If it needs to be modded, can anyone give an explanation of what needs to be done?
  
  Thanks.

  
  I could be wrong, but I thought Tintin said you will get more power with stock AAZ internals and a larger head than a TDI camplate with a stock AAZ lever and larger head. So assuming big power isn't important, I'd just put a bigger head on a stock pump. I have a stock AAZ pump with a TDI camplate and 10 mm head. I think the power is ok, but my previous (stock Rover) engine only had 42 hp.
• #10 by RabbitGTDguy on 31 Oct, 2008 21:38
• the aaz pump in stock form will do fine. Especially compared to the 1.6D pump. In prep for a mTDI pump, it serves as a much easier base than the 4bt pump does as well in some ways,especially when it comes to work.
  
  However, to be truly effective I think you'll find that it does still need consideration taken to the advance area in particular.  
  For instance, Martin added to a response that ironically enough Prothe put out regarding just adding a larger pump head and plunger to a AAZ pump...
  
  

  Quote from: "Tintin"

  It's not as simple as you claim it to make work a TDI with an AAZ pump and simply add the head/rotor and tdi came, that need specific DI control lever and much adjustment.
  
  The newer MK3 since 1998 and MK4 TDI do not use the same head spring than the AAZ one, only the old style TDI pump 1997 and later use the same, also 11mm pump on automatic TDI use the AAZ spring too.

  
  
  Direct link to the mTDI pump FAQ thread:
  http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6427
  
  TinTin is talking about the control lever itself of the throttle/gov. mechanism and the considerations that need to be taken there to maximize performance. As he said before, the AAZ pump will run the TDI motor...but potential? It needs further work (which isn't what the original post is asking for as he outlined)
  Further consideration is also needed with the advance mech. of the pump too as mTDI's love their advance.
  
  To repost what I stated about the 1.6 D bracket and a 1.6D pump on a mTDI motor. Prothe's comments on it were WRONG. A 1.6D pump will bolt directly to a Mk1, MK2, MK3 (AAZ and TDI) bracket without issue. It will even work on an MKIV bracket as well. Issues with pulley alignment are slight and already address here. But, so misinformation isn't out there, the brackets will swap from one motor to another without issues regarding IP mounting (even if using the stock bracket for that year of VW diesel motor...or using even an earlier one).
  
  For instance... on my mTDI motor I'm using the stock 1z/AHU bracket, tensioner, etc. etc. that came on the TDI motor. No issues (other than pulley alignment because of the 4bt pumps nose difference/length compared to a stock VW pump).
  
  Hillfolk on his mTDI motor utilized the MK1 IP bracket and is/was using the earlier style timing belt, tensioner, etc. on his setup...
  
   The MK3 1z/AHU IP bracket is VERY similar to the MKII/MKIII bracket with exception to the lack of the extra tensioner roller that is utilized on the TDI one. The only real oddball in the VW diesel family is the MK1 diesel bracket which is unique to the MK1 chassis itself since that IP bracket incorporates the IP mount as well as the P side engine mount for the MK1 cars. (other black sheep would be the vanagon diesel mount and the various longitudal ones for the b2 platform).  Otherwise, they are all the same.
  
  Joe
• #11 by Tintin on 07 Nov, 2008 14:44
• Your pic does not work.
  
  Yes the AAZ pump have a longer nose than 1.6 one, but take a look at the T/B pulley on each pump, you will understand why you can bolt a 1.6 pump on an AAZ or TDI motor.
  
  I still not understand how you can says  ''a m-tdi convesion package''  without proper lever??  explain me please.
• #12 by DA-BRT on 06 Jan, 2009 09:23
• One of my customers is using a 1.9TDI engine with a 1900TD AAZ pump on it for the tractor pulling load trailer (thing they pull around the track)
  
  The wanted a bigger head, but it ran good according to them. This pump was without modifications. He send me a link to his site, but I can't acces Gmail here at work. I will put the pictures here.
  
  I now sold them a 12mm M-TDI pump. They are converting it at the moment.