Ok, so from my photo you think I have everything necessary except for the A1 5-speed mount appropriate to the area in the blue circles, and the two bolts that would be used.
What is USRT? Do they sell this bracket and bolts that I need? What is necessary to work the shift linkage differences?
Here is what the vwvortex FAQ A1 section has to say on 4speed to 5speed tranny swaps: (I couldn't link to the specific post, so here's a copy)
-Josh
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Looking for info on swapping out your 4spd for a 5spd? I was back when I was 17 and with my first rabbit. I just dug out an old txt file with replies from the VWVortex MKI Class of 2000 Here's the info I have. Im not going to edit it, so just take what you can! And good luck with you swap!!!
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Some info regarding tranny/clutch job:
1) Driveshafts interchange between 4sp & 5sp, only difference in tranny's is the 5 gear housing (round plate on the end of it).
2) Gear shifting levers (two short rods with plastic clips on the ends are different between 4 sp and 5 sp so be sure you swap out to the right ones.
3)If you and your Dad are good with wrenches, you could do an R & R on a tranny in one day, but you'd have to work at it. Better to drag it out a bit and take the time to do things like repack CV joints (new boots too perhaps) since you have everything out and like 90% of the work is done then. I'd also reccomend getting a linkage rebuild kit (new bushings for the rotating shift shaft, stick pivots etc). Only costs about $8 US and makes a big difference in how smooth Rabbits shift, ez to install when you've got the trans out anyway. Put some moly grease in the bushings and the smooth action will last a good long time.
4)When you pull your "new" clutch off, loosen the bolts evenly in the reverse of the pattern reccomended in the Bentley for tightening, and do it just a little bit at a time on each bolt. If you just take the bolts out one at a time all at once, you risk warping the pressure plate, then the clutch won't disengage when reinstalled...and you get to do the whole job over ugh!!! Don't forget to lay hands on a clutch alignment tool (about 4'' diameter dished circle with some holes in it with a little stub shaft sticking out to align clutch plate while tightening down the flywheel bolts. You must use new bolts to hold the pressure plate to the engine crankshaft, these are one shot only and require locktite on threads.
5) With the money you save by DIY, buy new seals for rear engine crankshaft, tranny pushrod and input shaft and a new throwout bearing. Will make for less potential trouble downstream! Good luck, Rick
PS BTDC stands for Before Top Dead Center, 5* BTDC, means you set timing 5 degrees of crankshaft rotation (one rev= 360 degrees) B4 the #1 piston is at the top of its stroke (Top Dead Center). Some cars are also set with a retarded spark at idle and you will see a spec set timing at 3* ATDC (After TDC) for these.
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'96 Golf Gl Green/Gray,5sp,Neuspeed Bars & Tower Brace, Bilsteins, K & N filter
'00 Passat GLX Silver/Gray, 5sp. Commissioned: 2/24/00, 10 mi on the clock!
[This message has been edited by spitpilot (edited 05-15-2000).]
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Hey Sean,
The ‘ol 4speed to 5speed swap. Here is what I have learned when I did the swap a few years back(81 Diesel tranny into a 78 Rabbit-C). Since the donor car (79 Rabbit) originally had a 4 speed, much of what I say here depends on whether the swap into the 79 Rabbit was done completely as some parts that should be changed will still work if left in place. Assuming that all the right bits and pieces were swapped over into the 79 here is what you will need to do. First is to check what year car the tranny originally came from. I believe that if it is from a 84 and earlier you can use the same axles. The items that you will need to swap are as follows:
1. Gear selector bucket-This is the “bucket” where the gearshift lever goes. If I remember correctly it is held in by two bolts and is accessed from inside the car. The 5speed bucket is slightly wider so that it will allow you to get into 5th gear. If you do not change this part you will have a hard time getting into 5th or reverse.
2. The linkage which the rubber ball rests in. This piece is connected to the long rod that runs from the shift lever to the engine compartment and is held on by a 13mm nut and bolt. If you do not change this part the 5speed relay rods will not fit and you will get a funky throw on your even gears and some rubbing on your steering mechanism.
3. The two relay rods with the plastic snap on connectors. These are shaped differently to allow clearance of the steering mechanism. The 4speed rods will work but will give you a different throw between the odd and even gears. You will also have some binding and rubbing.
Well that’s it. You do have to adjust the linkage since it was taken apart but that is pretty simple. Let me know if you have any questions.
http://john.freestylin.net/gal....htmlGerry
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You need to use the driver's side engine mount that is meant for the 5-spd. That will be pretty obvious. In terms of linkage pieces, the most important is the piece bolted to the front end of the long rod in the "tunnel". I couldn't guess at its name, but it is slightly longer for 5-spd, than the equal 4-spd piece. It gives the linkage extra throw in the side to side motion. The linkage rods with the nylon end caps may be different length, I don't recall. Been too long since I swapped one.
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From what I remeber, it is primarily plug and play (or bolt and play for that matter)as far as the trans is concerned. Things to look for are the different linkage, reverse switch, output flanges.
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You might be fine with just swapping the linkage rods (those ones with the plastic ends) and readjusting the linkage...but you may end up having to swap the shifter itself as the ball for the 4spd usually doesn't move enough to get to all 5 gears. I wouldn't be so much worried about the linkage as I would the clutch. I bet that 79 has/had a 190/200mm clutch. Starting with the Rabbit GTI, they went to a 210mm clutch which is better in terms of longevity and resistance to slipping by far. I realize that your car is probably a 1.7, but I would still consider this. You won't have to swap the driveaxles though, they're the same
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When I swapped my 4spd pickup to the 5spd 16v gearbox, I just got a short-shift kit from Techtonics and it came with a new ball, vertical bar (where the new ball sits), bushings. I just called them and explained what I was doing and they explained what I needed, I think it was around $50-$75, their website should have pricing.
http://www.tttuning.comNow that I've done it, its no big deal. Lining up the linkage can be tricky and may take a few trys before everything slides into gear ok.
Chris
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When I first put a 5spd in my Rabbit I was told that I needed to swap all the linkages but I didn't want to and thought that I could make it work anyway. The 4spd linkage works fine. Plus, I would almost suspect that the 4spd shifter actually helps to keep the shift pattern nice and tight (along with my home made (better-than-the-rest) short shift kit), although, it does take some seriously accurate adjusting of the linkage to make it work!! GOOD LUCK!
Dave
77 Rabbit 2.0L 16v
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Guess what.I've done it.There is a shaft above the steering rack that hooks to the shift lever,It actually goes through a bracket on the rack.Go look at it...The easiest way to change over is to unbolt the bracket from the rack,and swap from the five speed to the four.Now you put in the trans.and adjust the shift linkage.Also make sure to check the speedo.cable gear.
PS.there are other ways to do this,but not all linkages are the same.
Chuck B
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Sean, I've seen your posts asking for advice concerning the 4 to 5 speed swap on a number of the other VW boards and newsgroups. Gerry has given you a very complete parts list; I'll try not to repeat what he has already listed.
When I did this swap, I went from a 1981 4 speed tranny to a 1984 GTI 5 speed; which requires a different driver's side mount and backup light switch, in addition to the parts Gerry mentioned. You probably won't need to worry about these parts, unless someone has put a later model tranny in the '79 (not unheard of).
At any rate-- with a complete parts car, you have all the stuff you need-- except for the "wear items".
Considering how much effort it is to pull the tranny for a clutch job, I would at least have the flywheel re-surfaced and put in a new tranny mainshaft seal, pushrod bushing and pushrod seal. I'd also consider spending a few dollars for new linkage bushings. Look over that clutch pushrod real well, and replace it if it has a flattened end-- otherwise you might have a problem with hard shifting unrelated to linkage...
Refilling the tranny with synthetic gear lube, such as Redline's MTL is also a good move.
If you don't have a Bentley manual, or would like some additional info on how to properly adjust that linkage when you're finished, check out the procedure outline on Jonny Guru's "Bad Habit Rabbit" page:
http://www.webhelp.org/vw/shifter.html Good Luck this Weekend!!,
Danny
81 Caddy (4k tranny- formerly a 4 speed)
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Having problems with your shifter? The nice thing about the A1 shifter system, compared to the newer cable type systems, is it's simplicity. Roll under your car and you will find the bottom of your shifter attached to a steel rod, attached to a black plastic ball that translates your movements into left and right and forward and back movements through two other arms that are attached by two plastic linkages to the shifter arm on the tranny. maintenance is minimal and adjustment is simple.
First, you would want to check for play or signs of wear. ANY signs of play or wear warrants the purchase of a shifter bushing kit. Even at the dealer, these kits run $6. I feel that, there is no excuse not to buy this kit and replace every bushing on the system. The other place to look for distortion of the plastic ended "dumbbell" linkages that are the go betweens of the different shift rods. I've seen where the steel center of the linkages are slightly bent or the plastic ends are oblong and cause unnecessary play. Replace these accordingly. You may find that these linkages can be effectively replaced with junkyard units.
If all is good as far as play or wear goes, and you continue to have problems shifting, let's consider the following: Problems with shifting can ABSOLUTELY be sourced to the transmission itself. Grab the shift arm that is directly attached to the tranny and go through the gears. The shifting motion should be just as smooth and predictable as you would expect it to be at the shift lever. If you find that third gear is where first should be or that reverse is where first should be, then you have an issue with adjustment. Fortunately, adjustment of this kind is easy.
Keep in mind that the gate for reverse (the piece that makes you push down to engage reverse) is in the shifter unit. It's a black piece of metal that you can see by removing the cover at the bottom of the shifter. The cover comes right off without special tools. Once removed the exposed underside will look like this:
The piece to the left in this shot is the lock out gate for reverse. The brown piece of plastic you see (referred to as the 'stop finger' in the Bentley Manual *) is what prevents the shifter from nonchalantly going into reverse. If you push the shifter all the way to the left, the plastic hits against the metal gate and stops the shifter from moving any farther left. You can then proceed to move the shifter forward, thus engaging first gear. When you push down on the shifter, you allow the brown plastic piece to clear the metal gate, thus allowing access to reverse (thus the exposed black metal on the piece in this picture from where the plastic piece has scraped away all of the white lithium grease). When properly adjusted, the shifter at rest should allow 15MM between the plastic piece you see above and the metal gate. You can see that in this picture, this car's shifter is out of adjustment because the clearance between these two parts seems to be only 10MM or less. What happens in this scenario is that first gear is nearly inaccessible because the plastic piece prematurely hits the metal gate preventing the shifter from moving completely to the left. If this gap was greater than 15MM, you would find reverse to be very difficult to engage, or the shifter would easily pop out of reverse because the plastic piece would not stay under the metal gate. There is no adjustment directly under the shifter, but you can see the solid rod leading off the top of the photo. Follow this rod to the down pipe of the exhaust manifold. Adjusting this gap is as easy as twisting the rod one way or another to create the correct amount of gap.
Undo the clamp (arrow points to the clamp I'm talking about) and pull the rod out. You need to pull the rod out because the rod is splined. Pull it out slowly so you do not end up moving the rod TOO MUCH. Pull the rod out, turn it in the direction you need to be going in (one or two notches), reinsert and clamp it back down. Wiggle the whole linkage system (to make sure the shifter is "at rest" at neutral). Go back to your shifter and check the gap between the brown plastic piece (which as of yet has a better name) and the metal plate. Repeat as necessary.
I would also like to bring up a point that was made on the H20 VW Newsgroup about converting a 4 speed bunny to a 5 speed bunny. All of the books on the market will tell you the same thing about grabbing all of the linkages and the driver's side motor mount off of a 5 speed donor car and give you the step by step procedure on installing it, however, there is no mention that the metal stop plate under the shifter on 5 speed cars is narrower to allow more side to side travel and that it should be replaced as well for better performance. I, for one, have done the 5 speed conversion without replacing the plate, but your neutral will be off center if you don't replace the plate and the splined rod adjustment described above needs to be DEAD ON to get all five of your gears properly, so keep this in mind when you're crawling under the car!
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Sean - Working in Africa
Blog: The Davii Return to the Hill
Personal Blog: Ramblings of a Motorcycle Borehole Repair Guy Stuck in Southern Uganda
Topic: MK2 tranny into a MK1 (Read 13779 times)
