Please help! Stuck with re timing VW 1.9TD - ABL engine code - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Please help! Stuck with re timing VW 1.9TD - ABL engine code by vwt4 on 07 Oct, 2008 13:20
• ok guys, to cut a long story short. Ive done a fair bit of work with my past petrol cars but diesels are new to me.
  basically,  my van started running badly from cold out of nowhere and drove really sluggish so I decided to investigate.
  
  I suspected the timing had slipped a tooth so I checked the belt and it was like new , the tensioner was like this though
  
  
  OK, so I tried to set the timing according to a guide or three I have read. I am not 100% sure I have the flywheel at TDC. The timing is either waaaay out, or this is the TDC marker as even with multiple rotations, when the cams for Cyl one were in or near the TDC position, there was no flywheel mark visible, only this pointer that can be seen through the right hand window
  
  
  Is that the TDC pointer for my engine code? I was expecting a notch on the FW but there is zilch...
  
  Ok, so I have paint marked all the pulleys and taken the old belt off, I couldnt lock the injector pump either!! This is what I see when I look through the inj pump sprocket
  
  
  
  The cam timing is definately out if the flywheel is at TDC as I think it is. I had to move the cams two teeth to get my cam locking tool to fit in place.
  
  Please can some derv experts help me out?
  
  Im going a bit round the twist as I dont know how to proceed from here...except to put the belt on as it was and have the timing way out still  :?
  
  I have zero experience with injector pumps. I turned this one by hand and it wasnt free turning but felt like it had a cam inside of some sort!! and it did a cycle which was about 1/4 of a pulley rotation...I put it back to where it was but really need help please  
  
  What is the best course of action??
  
  HELP!!!!
  
  THANKS
• #1 by vwt4 on 07 Oct, 2008 16:16
• As an addition to my earlier post as no one has helped me out Im wondering if I missed any information off? please let me know if i have
• #2 by burn_your_money on 07 Oct, 2008 18:28
• 
  
  This notch in the pump pulley needs to be lined up with the hole right behind it. I beleive it's diameter is 7mm. Use a round piece of metal, or an allen key if you have to to lock the pump in place.
  
  That looks like an 02A tranny to me, which means your TDC mark should be a straight line cut in it parallel to the the crankshaft
  
  You need to loosen the cam pulley from the camshaft, and lock the camshaft
  
  EDIT: you are going to be lucky if you don't have any bent valves. Regardless, time it properly and do a compression test. It'd be a good idea to take the valve cover off (you have to anyways) and see if any of the lifters are fubar
• #3 by vwt4 on 07 Oct, 2008 19:44
• Thanks a lot for the reply mate
  Really appreciate the input as Im on my own with this one and need to get my van back running asap.
  
  Can anyone please confirm -
  if the TDC mark on the flywheel, is not the pointer that is showing in the picture, the only other markings I saw in possible TDC position (for where the cams were) was some small dots *like little drill imprints) in a pattern below two teeth on the flywheel) - shall I retime it to these>?
  
  What method do I use to time the engine from scratch?
  eg// if I leave the belt off and rotate the crankshaft ONLY until I get the TDC mark (if I can find it), so I need to to a full 4 rotations to bring the engine back to the same postition as it is in now?)
  
  Im lost!
  
  Thanks for the injector pump locking info. it seems the 'special tool' I bought is much much fatter than 7mm and is a big meaty plug of alloy maybe half an inch diameter.
  
  Also, tyler...why do I have to take the valve cover off anyway? My current plan of action is:
  1/ cry
  2/lock the injector pump
  3/erm...well if I dont have the TDC mark on the flywheel right, but the cams are at TDC, then I dont know how to proceed!
  4/ Put the new belt back on exactly like the old one was (using my marks) and then refind TDC for the flywheel..and go from there?)
• #4 by dillenger1 on 07 Oct, 2008 21:15
• see if cylinder no.1 is at tdc(both lobes are up)The engine crank can be on exhaust or intake.No1 and no.4 work same stroke, then 2 and 3.The cylinder head will determine which is on the compression stroke(1 or 4).
  when no. 1 is at tdc then the pump may be timed to inject into that cylinder.
• #5 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 03:32
• Quote from: "dillenger1"

  see if cylinder no.1 is at tdc(both lobes are up)The engine crank can be on exhaust or intake.No1 and no.4 work same stroke, then 2 and 3.The cylinder head will determine which is on the compression stroke(1 or 4).
  when no. 1 is at tdc then the pump may be timed to inject into that cylinder.

  
  Thanks, I realise that if I take the cylinder head off I can find true TDC for cylinder 1, but I meant without removing the head as I need to get this back together asap..
  My point was if the timing is way out then how would I reset it from scratch with the belt off(although in reality it cant be that far out or the engine would have grenaded and wouldnt turn over).
  
  I was thinking plunger in cylinder 1 glo plug hole until it is at the top
  Then check flywheel marker
  
  Then set cams in the right position and lock them, then the pump.
  
  Is the pump in the right position if it is locked using the holes in the picture above?
• #6 by Sierra94 on 08 Oct, 2008 05:08
• The small "inline" imprints could be the TDC mark. Check if you have 2 bigger notches in the flywheel. One on each side of the small inprints.
  
  I made this mistake on an AEF engine the first time I timed it. The smaller ones were barely visible at first. But then a friend told me to look for them between the bigger notches and there they were.
  
  The next time I had the flywheel loose I made a bigger mark where the old ones used to be.
  
  And yes, the IP is in the right position when locked by inserting a drill bit etc through the notch in the sprocket into a hole in the IP behind the sprocket. Turn it over slowly until you can insert the "tool" in the hole properly.
• #7 by gigaz2 on 08 Oct, 2008 06:55
• find true TDC by removing an injector (not a glowplug) and probing the piston with a long thin screwdriver (or something like that).
  
  its the only way to be sure without taking the head off.
• #8 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 07:09
• Quote from: "Sierra94"

  The small "inline" imprints could be the TDC mark. Check if you have 2 bigger notches in the flywheel. One on each side of the small inprints.
  
  I made this mistake on an AEF engine the first time I timed it. The smaller ones were barely visible at first. But then a friend told me to look for them between the bigger notches and there they were.
  
  The next time I had the flywheel loose I made a bigger mark where the old ones used to be.
  
  And yes, the IP is in the right position when locked by inserting a drill bit etc through the notch in the sprocket into a hole in the IP behind the sprocket. Turn it over slowly until you can insert the "tool" in the hole properly.

  
  
  Thanks Sierra  :wink:
  I think the small imprints must be the TDC markings as Ive spent a long time checking all other places!
  The cams are also timed at TDC for cylinder 1 when the flywheel is now at the TDC markings.
  
  Re the IP, I rotated it until I could find 'the hole' to put the drill bit in. I found it alrigh but there seems to be a range of possible places it could go! Approximately 4 or 5 teeth on the belt worth... Meaning I can stick the bit in, lock it from turning clockwise.. remove the bit, turn the gear a bit...lock it etc etc
  Does this sound right?
  
  Also, and more worryingly, I fitted the cambelt just so I could turn the engine to the right TDC mark. I have now removed it to retime it hopefully correctly and the lug on the back of the timing belt tensioner was bent on to the wheel almost  :shock:
  Is this an easy thing to do because I didnt apply much tension...it could have happened getting the belt on I suppose but Ive never seen anything like it on other cars  :?
  
  Very stressed at this point and off to make a brew  :lol:
• #9 by burn_your_money on 08 Oct, 2008 07:56
• I just went and checked a 02A flywheel. It hsa a 0 with a line through it at TDC. There were no other marks around it. Thois one has been lightened so there might be some marks missing from the back but I doubt it.
  
  The valve cover needs to come off because at the transmission end of the cam, there is a slot. That needs to be parallel with the head and licked in place using a flat bar. That is TDC for the cam. You can not do that backwards, or 180 out, it's impossible.
  
  Sounds like you don't have the pin in the right place for the lock.
  
  There is a hole in the end of the pump that the drill bit slides into. If you have the proper sized bit it should be a snug fit, and the pump should not be able to move at all
  
  This is not the correct style of pump, but it will show you what I am talking about
  
  
  
  See the 1/2" hole directly above the shaft? That is where the other end of the pin lock (drill bit) goes.
• #10 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 09:38
• Quote from: "burn_your_money"

  I just went and checked a 02A flywheel. It hsa a 0 with a line through it at TDC. There were no other marks around it. Thois one has been lightened so there might be some marks missing from the back but I doubt it.
  
  The valve cover needs to come off because at the transmission end of the cam, there is a slot. That needs to be parallel with the head and licked in place using a flat bar. That is TDC for the cam. You can not do that backwards, or 180 out, it's impossible.
  
  Sounds like you don't have the pin in the right place for the lock.
  
  There is a hole in the end of the pump that the drill bit slides into. If you have the proper sized bit it should be a snug fit, and the pump should not be able to move at all
  
  This is not the correct style of pump, but it will show you what I am talking about
  
  
  See the 1/2" hole directly above the shaft? That is where the other end of the pin lock (drill bit) goes.

  
  
  Thanks for the pic and info  
  I have removed the cam cover and have the cam in the correct position for TDC on cyl 1. I have the VW locking tool and that fits perfectly. As you say, I dont think its possible to get it wrong!
  
  Re the IP. it seems I may not have the bit into the right hole! I will continue rotating the pump gear until I hopefully can find it..
  
  Next issue is getting the cam sprocket off. My usual tool (a sprocket lock belt) is not strong enough and I swear this bolt it tighter than 45nm or whetever it should be!!
  
  I have gone and got a new tensioner. Not sure how that was caused
  
  Could be wrong though...Will update after phase 11.4  
• #11 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 14:21
• ok. Success at last!!
  Found the bl**dy TDC mark on the flywheel. it was actually on the top face of the flywheel as opposed to the side face where I had been looking.
  Got a mate to turn the crank and found it.
  By sheer fluke it was only a bit out so I retimed the cam after getting the pulley bolt off with much heaving on a breaker bar!!
  It was waaaaay tighter than it should be. Unless inertia caused it.
  Does anyone know the right torque for this bolt please?
  
  I found the correct hole on the Injection pump. It was two teeth out  :shock:  No wonder it was running rough.
  
  So, the engine is timed perfectly and so is the IP to the belt at least.
  Going to finish replacing the glow plugs tomorrow as it went dark on me and then going to fire it up.
  
  Fingers crossed.....
  
  If it runs like a dog, is there an intermediate way of timing the diesel pump manually?
  I have the dial gauge but am waiting on the adapter that I have special ordered.
  Even an 'ok running' type of tuning will do for now!
  
  edit//
  
  The new tensioner made of monkey metal that twisted when tightening the belt was taken back straight away and replaced. The new one they gave me is OEM and is perfect.
• #12 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 20:58
• Also,Can anyone confirm for a diesel newbie if the Injector Pump has a cam like feeling when you rotate it? It gets hardish to turn after say a 1/4 of a turn (or should I say some resistance) , then seems to 'roll over' inside and is then easy to turn for the next 1/4 turn, and so on...I know there is injector cycles and Im just wondering Is this correct and normal?
  
  or is my pump knackered  :?
• #13 by Vincent Waldon on 08 Oct, 2008 21:09
• Completely normal... the 4 "roll-overs" correspond the the plunger making 4 injection cycles.
• #14 by vwt4 on 08 Oct, 2008 21:15
• Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

  Completely normal... the 4 "roll-overs" correspond the the plunger making 4 injection cycles.

  
  
  Thanks Vince!
  
  Thats put my mind at ease!
  
  ps// Great guide on your website although for some reason the HTMl didnt display in ie or firefox!
  Im going to use it for timing the pump when the adapter for the dial gauge arrives