87-94 ford diesel glow plug controller for a 1.6TD??? - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• 87-94 ford diesel glow plug controller for a 1.6TD??? by 53 willys on 05 Oct, 2008 09:51
• Im pretty much to the point in my gas to diesel conversion that I need to figure out the glow plug wiring and set-up....I'm not using a factory VW diesel harness so the relay slot in the fuse box is used by the gas fuel pump..I'm gonna keep that relay cause I am keeping my in-tank transfer pump as a diesel lift pump..so I dont want to try and wire it into the VW fuse box.
  
  I thought about a momentary switch..I know it's simple, easy and fast...but I want a more hands free set-up. I was talking with my buddy at work and he was telling me about the early ford diesel glow plug set-ups being a standalone set-up....I looked it up and sure enough it is stand alone...
  
  he is what the book states about it's operation
  
  
  
  "The solid-state glow plug system consists of glow plugs, the glow plug harness assembly and the glow plug controller.
  
  The system determines the glow plug temperature by electronically measuring the resistance of the glow plugs. It then maintains this temperature regardless of ambient temperatures.
  
  The system is actuated when the ignition switch is turned to the RUN position. The "WAIT TO START" lamp lights until the glow plugs reach the proper temperature. The lamp goes out and engine can be started.
  
  The after-glow operation of the glow plugs continues after "WAIT TO START" lamp turns off. The glow plugs cycle on and off for a period of time. This helps to reduce white smoke after engine start-up.
  
  The glow plug system can be recycled by turning the ignition off and on. This immediately restarts the glow plug cycle. The engine can be started as soon as the "WAIT TO START" lamp goes off."
  
  
  
  
  
  Here is a pic of what the relay and controller look like..
  
  
  
  
  
  
  wiring
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  so what to you guys think?
  should/could I use this on my gas to diesel conversion?
  it even has wiring lead for the glow plug light
  seems like it would be plug and play?
  about the only problem with this set-up is the cost of the controller..
  it $110 my cost...but the relay is replaceable for $13 later so......
  The question I have is...
  would I need to have all 8 glow plugs hooked up for the controller to sense/read the right temp of the glow plugs??
  if so the this would not work :-(
  but if I can hook just 4 plugs up to the control and have it sense/read the right resistance I would be golden right??
  
  
  I was also thinking I would put fuses on each plug like Vince W..
  what do you guys think of that?
  
  
  
  thanks for any help or thoughts you all have
  Mark
• #1 by allsierra123 on 05 Oct, 2008 09:59
• Glad you posted this I am in the same stages of figuring this out as well. Except I dont have the factory VW setup. So I will be looking forward to reading the solution on this.
• #2 by Vincent Waldon on 05 Oct, 2008 10:05
• Very very cool system... neat idea to use the resistance of the glow plug itself to monitor engine temperature.
  
  Having said that.... if Bosch glowplugs don't have the same temperature coefficient as the one's Ford uses then the system will probably not work correctly.  Dunno how you'd check it out.. but that might be something worth looking into before plunking down your hard-earned cash.
  
  If it turns out that the two systems are incompatible another option would be to get ahold of a standard glow plug relay and temp sensor and hard-wire it in... the pin-out of the relay is pretty straightforward (there's some good discussion over on   Jack's forum  on this) and you could solder wires directly to it and avoid needing the relay plate.
  
  BTW... by way of clarification (since I take a fair number of questions on this !) the individual glow plug fuses *are* a bit of overkill but serve two important purposes:
  
  - by using individual fuses a single glowplug can go south and not take out the rest by blowing the common fuse they all share on the stock system
  - the individual fuses give you a way to quickly isolate all four plugs so that you can check them individually for current draw, continuity, etc.
  
  I used glass fuses so that my eye can tell if one is blown.. others use the ATC style which are probably more rugged... either will work.
• #3 by 53 willys on 05 Oct, 2008 10:33
• Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

  Very very cool system... neat idea to use the resistance of the glow plug itself to monitor engine temperature.
  
  Having said that.... if Bosch glowplugs don't have the same temperature coefficient as the one's Ford uses then the system will probably not work correctly.  Dunno how you'd check it out.. but that might be something worth looking into before plunking down your hard-earned cash.
  
  If it turns out that the two systems are incompatible another option would be to get ahold of a standard glow plug relay and temp sensor and hard-wire it in... the pin-out of the relay is pretty straightforward (there's some good discussion over on Jack's forum on this) and you could solder wires directly to it and avoid needing the relay plate.
  
  BTW... by way of clarification (since I take a fair number of questions on this !) the individual glow plug fuses *are* a bit of overkill but serve two important purposes:
  
  - by using individual fuses a single plug can go south and not take out the rest by blowing the common fuse they all share on the stock system
  - the individual fuses give you a way to quickly isolate all four plugs so that you can check them individually for current draw, continuity, etc.
  - I used glass fuses so that my eye can tell if one is blown.. others use the ATC style which are probably more rugged... either will work.

  
  
  
  
  yeah finding out if they will interchange is the hard part..
  I'm thinking I will go to pick and pull today and see if they have the ford relay there?? and maybe a glow plug to??
  I looked up the ford GP in the book and it does not give any type of value or specs that I can find..
  
  we have Deutz diesels at work and they have the same style GP relay as the VW..but our deutz only use 1 GP..so they may have different specs.
  I would like to find a base or something if I use the stock style GPR..that way I can carry a spare "just in case"
  
  
  
  I like the fuse idea it's a good idea...I dont have a problem with over kill at all.
  
  have you seen the lighted ATC fuses they have now??
  we got some at work..but I have yet to see one blown to see the light...
  
  http://www.allspectrum.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=550&osCsid=e4dc8d5c051f5a66e5c6fcd64e158c62
• #4 by allsierra123 on 05 Oct, 2008 10:48
• Is there a write up on how to wire up the GPR if you dont have a stock setup?
• #5 by blackdogvan on 05 Oct, 2008 11:40
• You can get a stand alone relay socket for a "smart" relay from a TDi bug or golf etc. Works with head temp sensor, stayes on after start for a bit & has a connection for a dash LED.
  
  
• #6 by allsierra123 on 05 Oct, 2008 11:43
• What years was it available on? Anyone know where to pick one up our local boneyards have no tdi vehicles at all.
• #7 by blkboostedtruck on 05 Oct, 2008 12:43
• 53willys,
  if you can figure out a package you could sell them allready made up to those that are electrically challenged? like me!
  Duane
• #8 by allsierra123 on 05 Oct, 2008 12:55
• yes I would buy it. I would pay like $50 for one if all I had to do was attatch wires.
• #9 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 05 Oct, 2008 13:11
• Isn't it the case that the dedicated LED circuitry lies, and you are better off monitoring straight off the bus bar/s
  
  Here's something I cobbled together some years ago now....
  
  
  
• #10 by blkboostedtruck on 05 Oct, 2008 13:30
• Quote from: "allsierra123"

  yes I would buy it. I would pay like $50 for one if all I had to do was attatch wires.

  
  
  well i think he said for just the controller was 110bucks!
  prolly looking at 250bucks for something complete?
  Duane
• #11 by allsierra123 on 05 Oct, 2008 14:03
• If it were in a kit form. I would like to get something along those lines or even use the smart socket like you were talking about. If I could find one one.
• #12 by 53 willys on 05 Oct, 2008 15:59
• Quote from: "blackdogvan"

  You can get a stand alone relay socket for a "smart" relay from a TDi bug or golf etc. Works with head temp sensor, stayes on after start for a bit & has a connection for a dash LED.
  
  

  
  
  went to the wrecking yard today...found a single relay base from a 2.0 gas jetta(MKIII style) just like the one you posted above...
  so I guess I could just wire a stock GPR up to this socket??
  
  
  
  this may be the quickest and easiest route to take right now??
  
  I really like the ford set-up...but I cant find one at the wrecking yard and I don't want to waste money on a new one only to have it burn up my vw GP's....if I knew the resistance of the ford plugs I may try it but I cant find any info yet....
  
  
  to be continued...........
• #13 by Vincent Waldon on 05 Oct, 2008 16:06
• Not sure that a gas Jetta would have the correct relay socket for a diesel glow plug relay, but VW loves to re-use parts so you never know ??!!
  
  The pin-out for the relay is in the link to Jack's forum I posted... pretty much just wire up the pins as listed and away you go !
• #14 by zukgod1 on 05 Oct, 2008 17:40
• Mark I have a spare GP relay you can look at for this project.
  Personally I think using a stock relay runing a ford starter relay is the bedt way to go.