Injection Timing, WTF? Help needed

[Jet A]

The weasel is referring to tension of the timing belt being enough that between cam sprocket and pump sprocket 45 degree 'twist' is just manageable.
 Some like belt to be such that it will just slide on sprockets if pushed with finger and thumbs.

Builders crack hole is not down to rust as I previously stated; the pump complete with sprocket needs to be rotated one belt tooth to put the pump back on the aduster range.  
This will involve slackening off pump and timing belt. Clamp belt to cam sprocket AND set car in gear. Ease off t/b and keepig sprocket of pump fixed in relation to pump rotate pump one tooth in the direction that gives you a bigger builders's crack :lol:

Sweet got the belt tension thing now...i will try it tonight.

I dont however have the belt onto the pump yet. so i dont see how rotating the sprocket will help. its between the pin hole in the engine and the backside where the pump is. the pin is hitting the actual mounting block of the IP

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

The weasel is referring to tension of the timing belt being enough that between cam sprocket and pump sprocket 45 degree 'twist' is just manageable.
 Some like belt to be such that it will just slide on sprockets if pushed with finger and thumbs.

Builders crack hole is not down to rust as I previously stated; the pump complete with sprocket needs to be rotated one belt tooth to put the pump back on the aduster range.  
This will involve slackening off pump and timing belt. Clamp belt to cam sprocket AND set car in gear. Ease off t/b and keepig sprocket of pump fixed in relation to pump rotate pump one tooth in the direction that gives you a bigger builders's crack :lol:

Sweet got the belt tension thing now...i will try it tonight.

I dont however have the belt onto the pump yet. so i dont see how rotating the sprocket will help. its between the pin hole in the engine and the backside where the pump is. the pin is hitting the actual mounting block of the IP

Ha ha we're getting there.
Ok with cam belt off, simply loosen pump [loosen fuel lines on pump too if they are attached.
 Rotate pump whilst looking at that locking hole, and you should be able to make it grow into a complete circle. When you do, carry on until it starts to dissappear again; that is your range. Set pump to the middle position.
 Set crank to TDC with spanner.
 Lock cam at #1 TDC with a piece of iron bar/a set of feeler gauges.

 Are you looking through the correct hole in pump sprocket?

A photo of what the locking pin sees as it approaches the pump would really help...

[arb]

Ha ha we're getting there.
Ok with cam belt off, simply loosen pump.

Don't forget to loosen the mount under the injector line end of the pump. I forgot this once and there was more resistance to turning the pump than there should have been ;-)

[79rabbit4dr]

I'm in the middle of a water pump/timing belt - update/adjust (just bought the car) and I had a heck of a time adjusting my IP timing. It was set to .72 and is supposed to be at least .83 for my rig. Anyway, it was impossible to rotate it until I found all 4 bolts AND loosened the fuel lines, 3 of the bolts are on the passenger side of the IP (1 you have to go through IP sprocket to get) and the other, as just mentioned, underneath the driver side of the IP.

I bought my tools on ebay from the German guy (lots of others got the same set) and my IP locker fit's right in at the 3 o'clock mark when #1's at TDC. I seem to remember a picture showing an IP locker in at the 9 o'clock mark in a how-to or one of the manuals I have. You're not trying to stick it in the wrong hole are you? (that's what she said)

X2 to posting a picture. It'll help us all to understand what's going wrong for ya.

[Jet A]

Put the belt on and timed the pump. .039" with the pump the way it sits. SHould i be worried.

Clockwise turning, is counter clockwise looking at the crank pullet correct?

[79rabbit4dr]

.039" with the pump the way it sits. SHould i be worried.

Clockwise turning, is counter clockwise looking at the crank pullet correct?

.039??? that's really really low, but not worrysome until you try to turn the motor over  :lol:

I hate the clockwise/counterclockwise debate. Twisting the top of the IP towards the block will advance it closer to where you should be (between .8 and 1 I think- depending on what you're driving).

So if you're standing passenger side, looking at the passenger/pulley-side of the motor, you'd twist counterclockwise.

I hope that made sense...

[clbanman]

Don't forget the conversion from inches to mm.  .039"is right around 1mm.

[Jet A]

Don't forget the conversion from inches to mm.  .039"is right around 1mm.

thats the spec right? timing is supposed to be .039" +- .0007" for a td


Which was is counter clockwise MOTOR rotation. the book talks about rotating countner. but i dont know which end to look at.

Anyway, i tried to fire it. as i have no exhaust or intake manifold, i could see what each cylinder is doing. It wants to light, but just doesnt have enough something. Lots of smoke coming out. Hoping its the mercedies nozzles. Also looks like white smoke coming out of the center two, but that could just be at first. gunna check timing again tonight. still need to know which way is rotation

still fabbing the intake and turbo mount. should be on next weekend. Just wanted to fire it up before i got the turbo on to make things less difficult.

[jimfoo]

Rotation should be looking at the pulley end of the crank, not the flywheel end.

[Jet A]

Rotation should be looking at the pulley end of the crank, not the flywheel end.

Thanks, that is exactly what i need, thanks Jim.

[fatmobile]

Are you flooring it while cranking?
 Not much fuel flowing through thoses lines at idle @cranking speed.

[Jet A]

No, im not flooring it.

I  am begining to get frustrated with this. Here is what i have done this far. I have set the pump to tdc locked with my wobbley pin, i have the cam locked at tdc, i have the engine at tdc. I then set the tensioner and locked down the cam pulley.

I then rotated the enigine ccw about 5 teeth on the pump gear, until my dial stopped moving. i then, set to 0, and moved all the way back to tdc on the flywheel. readin was .041". i tried adjusting the pump, but i cant seem to get .039. so i left it at that.

I purged the injector lines, and began cranking. it tries really hard to fire but still nothing. I get lots of black diesel smoke out of each cylinder. glow plugs are new and working. I put in the "Prothe" mecedes nozzles to give them a go around. they are pop tested to 140bar and all within 1 bar of eachother.

Also, the pump seems like it is a pita to move around. i have all 5? bolts loose three on the top side, one through the gear, and one on the bottom driver side. still cant get the pin all the way through the gear.

What i dont understand is why this wont fire. is it to much fuel? I have not messed with the fuel pump.  should there be this much smoke? why cant i get this timing adjusted correctly. It seems like everytime i think i get it close the needle goes the opposite direction. Will this run with this timing setting? is i better to be on the high side or low side?  

This projects gunna be for sale shortly if i dont get this figure out.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

No, im not flooring it.

I  am begining to get frustrated with this. Here is what i have done this far. I have set the pump to tdc locked with my wobbley pin, i have the cam locked at tdc, i have the engine at tdc. I then set the tensioner and locked down the cam pulley.

I then rotated the enigine ccw about 5 teeth on the pump gear, until my dial stopped moving. i then, set to 0, and moved all the way back to tdc on the flywheel. readin was .041". i tried adjusting the pump, but i cant seem to get .039. so i left it at that.

.

The figure seems reasonable, but why can't you set the pump to .039?  As I previously stated at this point. You need to hold belt still on cam and keep crank still then with belt slid off of pump sprocket  move pump and sprocket one belt toothclockwise this will expose more of locking pin hole and give you more adjustment of timing. :shock: One thing which may further your cause: When doing the timing you don't use a locking pin on the pump. Locking pin is for when you car is running sweetly/correctly but you wish to renew the timing belt...  :shock: So procedure is to lock cam lock pump sprocket and at this same time flywheel should be showing TDC

[Duster 5.9]

my obsevation is you still didn't answer the question on where your ip locking hole is? front or back, some have both, you should be using the front of car one. also .041 should get it fired, but .038-.039 would be much better. don't get to frustrated. there are alot of good people here to help you out, it will work.

[Jet A]

Thanks,

I am using the hole up front, closest to the radiator. I still cant rotate the pump enough to make the hole big enough. i have about .010 adjustment in moving the pump. it feels like the pump does not want to move at all.

I guess i am looking at the bigger picture, and need more info. Are these pumps hard to move with the bolts free and how much adjustment is in them when they are able to move?

Should the massive amounts of diesel smoke be concerning when trying to start, is the a sign of the injectors, good or bad. And is it hindering my starting?

On the locking pin, i used it only to set the pump cam and crank all to tdc. then the pin was removed after the cam bolt was tight.