Trying to get my 1985 NA Jetta back on the road

[kane66]

After a 2 month hiatus I've finally gotten back to working on my Jetta. If anyone remembers after a rebuilt fuel pump install my mechanic couldn't get my car to start... for 6 months. Went and picked it up.

Here are the things I know or have tried.

The Compression was check and the Valves were adjusted.
It has a proven set of Injectors in it.
The fly wheel, crank and valves are all timed correctly with relationship to one another.
The Pump is timed to 1.02
I've installed an aux. fuel tank with fresh fuel


Here are the symptoms.
  Trying to start it at idle doesn't work at all.
  If I crank it over enought times and give it enough fuel it will eventually stat but I have to keep my foot on it ( at least above 2000 rpms) to keep it running. the moment it dips it dies. Then I have to crank on it a lot more for it to start again. With the same symptoms. While it's running there is a fantastic cloud of gray smoke behind it and when I turn it off there is a black mark on the ground behind the tail pipe of unburned fuel and soot.

My next step is to determine that it's not 180 out (even though I doubt it would start at all like that). Then I'm going to stat advancing the timing to see if I I can get it to run.

Does any one know what the max advance I can get out of the pump by loosening the bolt and turning it. What direction do I twist the pump to advance the timing. If that doesn't work how much is one tooth worth in respect to timing and what direction would I turn the sprocket  to get it to advance.

Also does anyone have any ideas. At this point I will try anything that wont cost me hundred of dollars ("get a new pump", or "bring it to a mechanic"). Any help greatly appreciated

[Vincent Waldon]

Are there two holes in the IP sprocket for the timing pin or just 1 ??

[kane66]

Vince.

there are two. I'm going to try and check to see if it's 180 out tomorrow. I hope that's the problem. My mechanic said he check to see if that was the problem but we'll see..... can it be 90 out or 170. I don't know if there is a key on the ip sprocket shaft. I'm going to un hook all the fuel lines from the pump and see what order fuel bleeds out as I turn it by hand.

[Duster 5.9]

there should be a key

[Vincent Waldon]

Vince.

there are two. I'm going to try and check to see if it's 180 out tomorrow

That's what it sounds like, assuming everything else is in correct alignment.

Or... (and I believe this came up the last time) your rebuilt pump needs to be rebuilt.

[kane66]

I've thought a lot about that the pump needs rebuilt again... by some one who know what there doing not someone who thinks they know what there doing (prothe). But would a pump pass a bench test and still be bad. Diesel Injection Services bench tested it after they re-sealed it and said it was good to go. Anyway I'm going to check the pump for 180 out today and see how it goes.

[Smokey Eddy]

my sixpence is on pump timing.
If you throw enough diesel into a compressing chamber it will eventually blow up right? You can almost run a diesel without timing the pump at all if you roll it down a hill fast enough in gear
It's gotta be a pump issue.
Be it, timing, fuel screw or residual fuel screw.. or... a plunger from an eco that isn't helping or something along those lines... just a thought

[burn_your_money]

you also posted this on vortex right?

[gigaz2]

its 180º off for sure, I went through all of that
I even have videos with it 180º out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXGEHmZfkW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvykn1G-qwM

I fiddled so much I even got it to idle, but there was absolutely no power, and it only started after a lot of cranking.
aligned the pump with the other hole, started at the first crank, and still a tooth off!!!

[kane66]

I just removed all the injector lines from the pumps and rotated the engine manually to see what port the fuel would come out of at each point in the engine cycle. I rotated it to TDC on cylinder #1 and fuel started pouring out of the top right IP port, then I rotated it to the next point TDC on cylinder three I think and no fuel came out.... I then rotated to the next one 4 I think and again no fuel I then rotated it to the next one 2 I think and again no fuel.... I then rotated it back to 1 again fuel started pouring out.....
Does the pump need the back pressure provided by the injectors to change what port in injects fuel in... or is my pump stuck on only injecting fuel in cylinder 1.



Anyway any help appreciated.

p.s. this is also on the Vortex.... I understand the confusion I tried using the same name both places but there was some kind of error while setting up my account and it wouldn't let me.

[burn_your_money]

ok just checking. I don't want to write the same advice twice