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smoke at idle, lowish power, smoke under load
by
jackbombay
on 19 Aug, 2008 07:10
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So My buddy has a pretty nice low mile caddy, he got it with a spearco turbo kit, it didn't make any boost to speak of, way wound up it would make 4 PSI, but none during normal driving or at WOT at lower RPMs. NO smoke at all at any time before either.
He wanted, and really needed, more power so I recommended a Giles pump, he got a late model pump sent it to Giles for a rebuild and I installed it, I also installed some new 155bar injectors last night as well.
The pump timing is set to .96mm (.038") the cam timing is right on, and the car smokes at idle, I'm not sure what I'm missing.
Under load it smokes at times. At very low boost and WOT it doesn't smoke, but at higher RPM and 4+ PSI (it does make 9 PSI now) it smokes quite a bit, the whole road is hazy behind the car. Also to get it to idle wiout the cold start timing advance "idle up" lever pulled out I had to screw in the idle speed adjuster about 1/4" :? :?:
What is the next step here? The car, while quite slow, NEVER smoked ever before, it would go 50 MPH up the slight hill to town at WOT, and now it will go 55 at WOT, before the EGTs were ~600, now they are 1000, but for only 5 more MPH with a bunch of smoke for 5 MPH something seems wrong, I just can't figure out what.
Also the seat that the heat shields seal against is corroded away on the lower/front edge of the hole, no soot/exhaust has leaked past the threaded section of the injector though, I know this is not how it should be, but it is also not the cause of the problem as it has been like this for quite some time, I'll post pics of the injector heat shields later, I didn't have a camera handy while there to take a pic of the head :-/
Thoughts?
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#1
by
gigaz2
on 19 Aug, 2008 07:20
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low compression?
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#2
by
jimfoo
on 19 Aug, 2008 07:49
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Something is wrong with the turbo if it only made 4 psi before. Probably stuck waste gate. Have a clean air filter as well? What color is the smoke? It wasn't timed with the cold start out was it?
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#3
by
jtanguay
on 19 Aug, 2008 08:41
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did Giles tune the pump for an intercooler??? that would explain some of the smoke... also how is your boost gauge? some can give false readings.... also check for small boost leaks. you only need a small straw like opening to have 0 boost. the heat shield seat was probably corroded by a leaky injector... good thing you changed injectors, but the damage is already done
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#4
by
jackbombay
on 19 Aug, 2008 18:51
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low compression?
Minimal blow by, low oil consumption. I have not done an actual compression test though.
Something is wrong with the turbo if it only made 4 psi before. Probably stuck waste gate. Have a clean air filter as well? What color is the smoke? It wasn't timed with the cold start out was it?
The smoke is gray, smells of diesel, no motor oil smell at all.
The wastegate operate well and was "clamped" closed quite strongly when I checked it. Air filter is a little old, and will be replaced soon. Cold start was in when timed.
The turbo is not a T3 or anything else that was ever sold with the deisels, its an odd ball that was part of the spearco kit, I have read elsewhere that they just suck at making boost/power.
did Giles tune the pump for an intercooler??? that would explain some of the smoke... also how is your boost gauge? some can give false readings.... also check for small boost leaks. you only need a small straw like opening to have 0 boost. the heat shield seat was probably corroded by a leaky injector... good thing you changed injectors, but the damage is already done
actually ALL of the heat shield seats were about the same #3 was thew wrst and #1 was trhe best, but all were knackered to some degree :-/
I'll check for boost leaks, but there still the issue of smoke at idle.
I'm pretty sure the pump was built for a nonIC set-up, I'll send giles an e-mail and confirm.
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#5
by
Smokey Eddy
on 19 Aug, 2008 19:00
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For my smoking issues i found that a new fuel filter and air filter made a loooadddd of difference. really high EGT like that with not much boost to go with it is odd. O2 burns hotter than diesel if i recall so that makes sense i guess that you have 9psi now instead of 4... but 4 is SO low. I have a Garett t3 and i can really hear it spool up and whine when its going. Try a bigger exhaust if you have the pipe to fab up quickly (maybe if you ran a shop or something).
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#6
by
Jet A
on 19 Aug, 2008 19:18
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What type of turbo is it, and what vehicle did it come off of? Sounds like the turbo is not a good match to the vehicle.
Sounds like it is a bigger turbo. If the turbo is to large, it will not spin up to build boost, and not cause enough restriction to cause heat buildup, which is good. But since you want to lower your egts you need to build boost.
ANother theroy, CHeck your wastegate actuator. pull the boost hose off of it and take it for a run, see if it builds more boost than before. if so, you need to run a boost fooler.
really high EGT like that with not much boost to go with it is odd. O2 burns hotter than diesel if i recall so that makes sense i guess that you have 9psi now instead of 4... but 4 is SO low. I have a Garett t3 and i can really hear it spool up and whine when its going. Try a bigger exhaust if you have the pipe to fab up quickly (maybe if you ran a shop or something).
Smokey, i think your thinking backwards. Gas engines burn hotter with more air and less fuel
Diesel engines burn hotter with more FUEL. So when you are running low on boost you are running high on egts. More air = cool = no smoke. less air = hot = smoke = sh!t starting to melt down.
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#7
by
Smokey Eddy
on 19 Aug, 2008 19:25
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Oh, im sorry...
Hmmm i could have sworn that it was O that made combustion have so much heat in my chem class. I apologize for my falicies
yeah you're right i remember now building up a nova the old block had hot spots from runing too lean. sorry i was thinking about gassers
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#8
by
burnt_servo
on 19 Aug, 2008 22:05
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what you describe kind of sounds like what happened to a guy i know and his '92 jetta ( 1.6 td ) ...
acording to him , he replaced his lifters and the smoke went away , the power came back , and so did his boost presure .
i had a slightly similar experience when i had low oil presure issues .
before i put in the high volume pump and replaced the bearings , that i atribute to the lifters not being fully pumped up .
after i got the oil presure wayyyy up over where it had been before , my car produced less smoke , 3 or 4 pounds more boost , more power and better milage .
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#9
by
jackbombay
on 19 Aug, 2008 22:29
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I'm pretty sure his is a solid lifter motor, but I'll check it out and check the valve adjustment if it is.
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#10
by
jackbombay
on 25 Aug, 2008 16:48
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Well, I had the pump timed 180* off :oops: :oops: :oops:
When I pulled the old pump with the engine at TDC the key was facing the front of the car so I put in the new pump that way, but that newer pump (with the fast idle cold start mechanism) is different I suppose? Or maybe I just screwed something up. At any rate the car runs quite nice now and is smoke free :-)
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#11
by
burn_your_money
on 26 Aug, 2008 05:01
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Glad to hear you got it fixed up. Do you have one of those pulleys that allow it to be timed 180 out or were you not using the pump locking tool?
It's been a while but I think the key needs to be at the 11 oclock position for TDC.
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#12
by
jackbombay
on 26 Aug, 2008 07:14
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The pulley wheel does have 2 holes for the pump locking pin, which I was using.