Strangeness I say!!

[zukgod1]

So heres the deal.

I set my timing to 1.02mm and fire it up. Sounds like a hand full of rocks bouncing around in there. I backed it down a bit just so the head gasket wouldn't pop while idling. Went to go for a test drive and turned on the A/C, killed the engine like I had turned it off :shock:
What the heck?
So I restart and try again, same deal turn on the A/C and it dies.
Hmmmm, so I go for a drive without the A/C and it runs fine but damn loud so back home I go. Loosen the pump and fire it up, back it off till it sounds "Normal" and lock it down. Restart and head for another test drive, turn on the A/C and no problem.  :?
Test drive goes fine and MUCH quieter.
I drove it to work and back 120+ miles then decided to try advancing it just a tad more as I though my EGT's were just a bit high. After wards turned on the A/C died..  WTH??!?!?!?!

So what's going on here?
Mainly in regards to the timing issue allowing the engine to die when turned on. There is nothing wrong with the A/C system it functions great.

It feels like when I have the timing advanced it has zero torque at idle, to the point he A/C compressor just drags it to a stop.
At a lower setting on the timing it bairly even slows the engine.

This is slightly confusing.

I checked my dial indicator with my calipers just to make sure the gauge wasn't off and it's right on. So I'm setting it correctly.

I wonder though, if I may be off a tooth on my belt, wouldn't that show up when I'm setting it? I mean if my cam is locked and the crank is on TDC it would be hard to be off a tooth if I can get 1.00mm no?

The A/C dragging the engine to a stop has me baffled.

[zukgod1]

The timing setting IS the protrusion of the plunger from it's low spot.  The actual teeth that are indexed to the gear are irrelevant.  In other words, if you are a tooth off, you will not be able to achieve the timing setting you would like to achieve (e.g. 1.00).

Andrew

That's what I thought.


So then the strangness still remains then on the rest.

[riddleyo]

Are all of your accessory pulleys able to easily be spun by hand?

[zukgod1]

Are all of your accessory pulleys able to easily be spun by hand?

Yes there are zero issues with anything bolted to the engine.

This is a timing issue/ lack of power @ idle (I think).

[blkboostedtruck]

does your idle kick up like it should with a selonoid or readjust your smoke screw and adjust you idel again? thats pretty odd tho?
Duane

[zukgod1]

does your idle kick up like it should with a solenoid or readjust your smoke screw and adjust you idel again? thats pretty odd tho?
Duane

I don't have the A/C solenoid so I pull out the fast idle lever when I'm around town but usually it will at least idle, just drops a little.

I can get it to idle when the timing is advanced by having that lever pulled all the way out or as you mentioned adjust the idle up a but, then if he A/C isn't running it's idling around 1300..

[myke_w]

no chance your crank timing gear is working it's way loose? Like maybe when load is applied it jacks up the timing? Be worth checking if you run out of other obvious issues.

Just a thought - The 1.6's do that as well as the 1.9's, just not as badly without the serp belt, no clutched alternator setup (primary suspect for mass 1.9 crank snout disintegration). I've seen plenty of integrated keys on 1.6 gears that were cracked and ready to let go..

[zukgod1]

I'll check Myke, thanks for the tip.

I'm doubtful though as if I just change the timing on the IP the character of the entire car changes.

Thing is, I don't notice a difference in the car as to performance either way. It drives nice, fuel consumption is about the same either way.

Its still hard to start though, doesn't matter where the hell I put the IP!!

I suspect that will be taken care of with the Giles pump in my future. That and don't forget I had larger Precups installed and used a 3 notch head gasket when it specked out for a 1 notcher so my compression is lower than it should be for starting.

Going to take care of the blow by issue first then the funds will be directed that way.

[myke_w]

hard starts and blow-by are good pals  maybe that's your issue

[zukgod1]

hard starts and blow-by are good pals  maybe that's your issue

At least on the hard starts yes. I suppose it could have something to do with my current issue as well no? I mean if there is just enough compression to get it running than maybe there isn't enough to run it with the A/C.
Na, that doesn't make sens either really. I mean if I just change the timing it runs fine with the A/C on so....


When I get all the stuff (rings gaskets etc) coming (from you) and it's all installed I'm going to do a thread on the shi*y Topline rings. That is if it wasn't me installing them upside down, boy that would blow seriously.. Pun intended.

[gigaz2]

wouldn't a compression check rule out, or confirm, compression issues?

the pump isn't 180º out is it?  (mine ran and drove 180º out.. tolerance gets a new meaning with vw idi )

[zukgod1]

wouldn't a compression check rule out, or confirm, compression issues?

the pump isn't 180º out is it?  (mine ran and drove 180º out.. tolerance gets a new meaning with vw idi )

Yes a comp test would tell me that but I can plainly see there is a issue with blowby so I'm not waisting my time or a set of heat shields to confirm what i already know and have plans to remedy.

No the pump isn't 180 out.

We are still looking at the issue of the advanced timing not having the HP to run the A/C.

Maybe I'll drop the subject until the new rings are installed to prevent any more confusion here.

[zukgod1]

I agree and was aware of this. When I first started building the car I was building a "go fast" diesel with plans of a 12mm pump huge injectors etc etc so I was attempting to lower the compression a tad so I could stuff large amounts of air in there.

I had already bought the head gasket from myke along with all the other components I needed to put it together. At some point in the build my reasoning from building the car had changed to "I need a car to commute in". I was up against the clock at this point and myke was having a hard time getting me a 1 notch head gasket, well maybe not a hard time but a hard time for the amount of time I had to get it done so I ended up using the 3 notcher. The piston protrusion called for a 1 notch

Now I have this blow by issue so I need to tear into it anyway.
While I'm there I'll be installing the Total Seal rings and the 1 notch gasket. I suspect this will make the car scream with pleasure or maybe that will be me

[veedubcanuck]

It's funny you should mention the noise when you set your timing. I have an 84 TD engine that if I try to set the timing to 1.00mm (yes the lever is in) it sounds like its ready to blow, I have to back it right down to about .90 for it to sound normal... No clue why?! It also has no power when it's noisy.

[zukgod1]

I was just thinking last night that MAYBE my injectors are popping to early.

This would cause the timing to be advanced further than you are setting it at.

I don't know the formula but say you set the timing @ 1.02mm and your injectors are messed up and popping @ say 130bar it may actually cause the timing to be @ like 1.15..

Does that make sense at all?
We all know if your injectors are set to a higher # it actually retards the timing a bit so the opposite would be true for 130 bar, your timing would be advanced a certain %.

Just a thought on our problem..

I'm going to put in these huge ass injectors I have in this weekend that are set @ 139 bar just to see if it any it makes any difference at all.
If it does depending on what it actually changes will help with another piece of the puzzle.
Going to run out of heat shields here soon at this rate.