Diesel Dasher Woes--Runs Great but Doesn't Start!!!

[CaddyTD]

Hey all! I have been working on solving a problem on my Dasher that
is driving me INSANE! I've been working on these for years and am
really stumped. I've even stumped all of my diesel head friends as
well.

Problem: It started small, I drove the car for about a week then one
day when I was getting ready for work (I had actually been driving
around in it previous to this) I came back out of my house to go to
work (about 20 minutes later) the car wouldn't start. I replaced
something or fixed a filter or something to where I thought it was
fixed but it kept getting worse. In between every no-start I would
do something to the fuel system.

The following is what has been done to the system:

1. Compression is 450 psi on all 4 cylinders
2. Fuel injectors have been rebuilt
3. Fuel lines to the injectors have been checked and cleaned
4. I have swapped on at least 4 pumps onto the car (one's I have
laying around) and the exact same problem comes back
5. All the copper washers have been replaced with new
6. Replaced the fuel filter twice (there was rust in the tank) 7. Replaced the fuel filter housing thinking that there could be a
small crack somewhere
8. Replaced the soft lines between the steel lines and the filter
assy/pump and the steel lines and the tank
9. I have blown the lines out numerous times
10. I have pulled the tank, cleaned it out, dried it out and
reinstalled it
11. I have treated the fuel for algae
12. I have removed the screen in the tank
13. New glow plugs

After all of this, the problem has steadily gotten worse. Now I have
to REALLY crank on it to get it started (like the system has gone dry
when in reality the pump is full) even when it's cold but once I get
it running it runs great. Nice power, smooth idle, nice clackity
clack noise from the motor (not too loud but not really quiet either,
the way it should sound), and I've even got 45 mpg in town (I deliver
pizza in the evenings, which are harsh conditions to get 45 mpg).
But now, once it get it started, after doing all that work it's
worse. I go for a short drive, pull it back into the shop and it
won't start, even it I try to start it right back up.

If ANYONE has ANY idea of what this could be PLEASE LMK. I am VERY
frustrated at this point with this and need to get it running as my
little VW Pickup with the hot rod motor only gets 20 mpg in town.
When you figure the difference in fuel costs is around $20 a night,
about $100 a week makes it $400 a month and $4800 a year. $20 a
night doesn't look like much until you multiply it out!

Thanks!!!

Dave

[burnt_servo]

check the wires that run your glow plug system .  check the fuse link that in the glow plug wiring , replace it  , regardless of condition ( i used copper wire ) .
replace your glowplug relay .

the only other thing  that may help , but it would have to be a really odd ball sitiuation .... install a electric lift pump ... maybe your getting air in the system somehow ,  a lift pump will  help .

* edit , changed ait to air *

[CaddyTD]

That's a great suggestion but it does this when its warm.  Even though the glow plugs are new and I have tested them and when it is running it starts fine cold, the glow plug system has nothing to do with warm or hot starts (temp sensor controlled).  

Thanks

[CaddyTD]

Oh, and what is ait?  Could be miss-spelled but either way I am not sure what you are trying to say.  Maybe an acronym?  Anyway, LMK.  I do have a pump I could stick in there but the injection pump is still full of fuel when it does this??

[jimfoo]

Ait is probably air. Maybe check the fuel shutoff solenoid. Maybe it is starting to stick closed or has a bad connection.

[Choppercat]

The shut-off solenoid would have been ruled out when you changed the pump but it still could be an electrical issue so I go with Jim. Try to hotwire the shut-off solenoid directly to the battery.

[jtanguay]

my money is on air getting into the system.

[CaddyTD]

I would absolutely be elated if that is the problem.  BUT, would it be so quick that I pull the car into my shop, turn it off then try to restart it to no avail?  

These cars are suppose to be EASY!!  I'm going to pull the injectors tonight and see if there is anything strange about them (algae hanging out).  I also set up something so I could mount the injectors to the pump via modified fuel lines so that the will spray into a cup.  I'll let you know how that goes.

[jtanguay]

ok try this.  jump the glowplugs by powering the bus bar and then start to see if that helps.  if it does then somethings out of whack... either timing, or pump maybe?  mine acts up like that sometimes.. takes a few spins when warm (glow plugs don't come on) but when glowed the engine fires right up.  but mine also has low compression...

[burnt_servo]

does your engine have mechanical lifters ,  if so  they are set up too tight  and possibly holding the valves open slightly  when the engine is hot .....

you did say this happened  more often when the engine was hot , right?

[CaddyTD]

The valves are set to spec.  

BUT, tonight I started it up and it started just fine.  I drove it three times, pulled it into the shop and it started right up.  I let it set for a while twice and it started up fine, once with glow plugs and choke pulled.  I am not saying that it is fixed but maybe it was a fuel issue and the agae stuff that I put into it last week is doing it's job.  I also added some Bardahl cetane boost/fuel conditioner and maybe that is doing the trick.  I am NOT holding my breath and will not turn it off anywhere other than my shop but we will see.

[Choppercat]

I would try a hardwire for the stop solenoid right to the battery for a little while.  I haven't looked to see if this theory is plausible, but I wonder if it could be a flakey connection to the stop solenoid from the "start" position of the ignition switch that is a good connection on the "run" position.  If the connection in the "run" position was flakey, the engine would cut out while driving.

Andrew

X 2

Mine wouldn't start all of a suddent last year, cranked forever but no start; ingition switch replaced, problem solved.

[CaddyTD]

Yeah, I thought of that too.  I also thought of the fuse panel issues as well but I have been in there, cleaned everything, di-electric greased everything, cleaned all the ground connectors etc.  I have tried other switches as well.  I think I have a brand new switch laying around that I will throw in just to rule it out.  Thanks!

[fatmobile]

Put a voltmeter on the stop solenoid and see what you are getting while your at it.
 I've even heard of the wire only having power while cranking so weird things can happen with power to the stop solenoid.
 A friend had a problem like yours and a changed stop solenoid solved the problem,.. so it's a good area to check.

[Smokey Eddy]

Hey I have the same problem. It starts okay :roll:  when cold and basically not at all when hot.

you gather from all this advice that new ignition switch and new "stop" solenoid would do it with a pump retiming (not rebuilding just retimed to make sure its true)
? PM me what you think because im about to set fire to my car because of this very problem.
Does yours roll start very easily when it's hot? I can start mine by my self just by pusing it to a brisk walking speed and it will start up with no complaints. (thats how i usually start it when its hot because it will literally be like 20-30 seconds of cranking when its hot to get it to go