Author Topic: Head and sump off, this is what I find! (Read 8146 times)

wil892 · « **on:** July 27, 2008, 07:43:01 am »

I've just taken the head and sump off the GTD engine. First good news is that it must have been rebuilt quite recently because the bores have no ridge at all and I can see all the honing marks on the walls.
Is it normal to be able to move the pistons side to side slightly when they are at the top of the cylinder?

I am a bit more concerned though with the in/out play of the Intermediate Shaft. I have found some bits of metal (see pic) in the oil pan which I can only think were a result of something being wrong with the intermediate shaft. any ideas? The shaft has obviousely been running slightly closer to the block that it should be, meaning the belt didn't sit on it properly. If I pull it out it moves about 1/2cm (1/8 inch) to where it should be.

thanks

wil892 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2008, 08:59:32 am »

I have removed the int shaft now. This is what i found...

Is the bearing in the block meant to be wider than that?

will

jimfoo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2008, 08:59:52 am »

Almost look like lifter pieces to me.

wil892 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2008, 09:26:03 am »

Bits of metal

Dakotakid · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2008, 11:32:20 am »

I cast a vote for that which is left of the int. sft. bearing.

Quantum TD · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2008, 11:45:28 am »

Quote from: "Dakotakid"

I cast a vote for that which is left of the int. sft. bearing.

X2

The bearing can delaminate and it looks just like that. I just did that same job about 2 weeks ago.

It looks like in your case, your belt was overtightened at some point, which led to the outer retaining ring breaking off the intermediate shaft. Was that piece still sitting behind the seal mounting plate, or was it missing altogether? Either way, it looks like the raw, broken edges of the shaft were riding against the bearing and tearing it to shreds. Take a peek at the same thing I just dealt with:

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8480

You'll know if the pieces are from the bearing if they're soft and snap/bend easily.

In the end, if you had no other running problems, you can just replace that outer bearing, replace the intermediate shaft, and put it all back together. Just make sure you tighten the belt properly so that you don't have to do this job again.

buckweat diesel · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:57:38 pm »

yes it is iv seen this before lifter top :cry:

wil892 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2008, 02:34:49 pm »

Ok I will get a new bearing and shaft for it. should i check the oil pump because am I right in thinking its the only part of the engine to see unfiltered oil? (thus having bearing metal in)

Im pretty sure its not lifter material, as the engine was running perfectly when taken out of the car. Head is almost new as well. I'll remove the cam and followers though and have a good look, might as well clean the head while i'm at it.

Thanks

Will

Quantum TD · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2008, 03:16:52 pm »

Yeah, not a bad idea. If you have the motor out, it might be a good idea to spray out the insides with some brake cleaner too. The particles might have gotten shloshed around the case by the crankshaft. For the most part, the bearing is soft material. The only rigid metal part of it is the outer ring, which is still in it's hole right now.

jimfoo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2008, 04:23:18 pm »

Does it stick to a magnet? No = bearing, yes= something else. If it is lifter, it might have been from a previous repair, but worth checking.

fatmobile · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2008, 12:19:40 am »

I have a theory.
A timing belt that is running near the outer edge of the injection pump sprocket goes over the i-shaft pully and runs back toward the block as it gets closer to the crank sprocket,... pushed over by the crank pully.
I think this causes the I-shaft to slam repeatedly into the block,.. since the belt is running over it at an angle.

riddleyo · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2008, 06:56:32 am »

Quote from: "wil892"

I have removed the int shaft now. This is what i found...

Your picture confirms that the metal pieces in your oil pan are the outer lip of the intermediate shaft that controls the axial play.

Take a look at my broken intermediate shaft, my lip is partially intact while your lip is completely broken:

Your intermediate shaft lip has broken off. Like others and you have figured out, you will need to replace the intermediate shaft, and check the surface of the intermediate shaft flange (the one that holds the intermediate shaft rubber seals, might as well replace the seals anyway). I'm in pretty much the same boat as you right now man.

jimfoo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2008, 07:15:02 am »

Just how would such large pieces of the IS lip get past the bearing? The pieces HAVE to be something else.

zukgod1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2008, 07:39:37 am »

I wonder if it's the race on the vac pump side. Pcs of the block maybe?
The radius looks to be to large for it to be a lifter.

myke_w · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2008, 08:10:57 am »

Are these pieces able to be picked up with a magnet??