95 mk3 vr6 -> turbo diesel

[fuslit]

Thought I had started a thread here, but perhaps not. Anyway I'm thinking about putting the turbo diesel motor that I have into my daily driver. A 95 mk3 jetta glx. (pre-ob2)

I've started with a turbo diesel motor I have was supposedly freshly rebuilt but since it's not something I want to drop right in, I'm going to go back over it and clean a few things up. Change out a few things, larger turbo, different pump then what I got it with, swap the belt system to a tdi serpentine belt tensioner setup etc. I'm staying with an o2a transmission because I don't mind the hydraulic clutch and cable shifting of the car and it would be 'quicker' to swap in for me (less stuff to try and track down.)

So, while it's not going to be stock 1.6td and I've got a few things to help it push out some more power...  The end question is will it have enough power to push the car (and bike rack) at an acceptable speed?

Non standard things that I have which will be on it
- Raceware head studs
- GTD injector nozzles
- Bigger turbo
- Large front mount intercooler (of some type)
- 16v passat o2a AGC trans (with a tdi 5th gear set)
- rebuilt turbo diesel pump with some mods to push more fuel.
- Serp belt kit from tdi

Things I need for the conversion:
- 1.9td mk3 wiring harness
- Tdi fifth gear set
- g60 flywheel for a vr6 clutch
- diesel starter
- alternator (I can use a vr's)
- Downpipe and Exhaust

Things I'm thinking about for the future?
- 1.9 turbo diesel head
- metal head gasket?
- frybred wvo tank?
- bio-diesel

What else would I need to change / swap to get this to work (the air-con might be a project but figured I'd keep it since it still works...)

Thoughts, suggestions, threads of people who've already done this? (I did a quick search but wasn't able to find anything that directly addressed this particular topic.)

-Todd

[fuslit]

The day before yesterday I started getting the motor torn down so I can clean it up a bit and change out a few things before I swap and make sure things are in order. (that the previous owner supposedly did.)





I've got a 'real' td oil pan, so I've pulled the one that was on it (anyone want to turbo their car? I've got a spare oil pan... make me an offer)



I've also pulled the clutch that was on it as it's for an 020 tran (a sachs something er other, I'll have to lookup what it is again. That might be for sale as well.)



again, code on my transmission it is is an AGC so I looked up the info on that.
_________1st___2nd___3rd___4th___5th___R&P____Notes
AGC====3.778 =2.105=1.345=0.971=0.795=3.944= Passat 16V

I've found a few sources for a tdi .775 fifth gear set. I'm wondering how much of a difference that it would make in the rpm's in fifth gear. I guess it'll depend what the final price point on the gears turns out to be. I hopefully will be able to make the final decision today as I've been slammed with work/family stuff...

For kicks and grins I test fit the serp/alt belt holder from the tdi longblock I have on the motor, 3 out of four bolts fit.



I'm am going to hold off on buying the serp belt from a 1.9 td now, and I've been thinking about just selling off the parts from the tdi that are still good... (head, 3 pistons, crank, etc... keep an eye out I might have some tdi parts for sale.)

For me this is real progress! (my projects tend to move slow... as I have a ton of stuff going on at once...)

-Todd

[fuslit]

I made some progress last night!

I pulled some more from the busted TDI longblock I have (serp pulleys, vbelt pulleys for the h20 pump, ip bracket, lower belt guard, etc.)

So far, everything seems to swap over, the IP bracket while it does hold the pump, has some complications (the mounting points are off, only one of four bolt holes fit) With only one bolt lines up and the 'outside' bolt which the serp tensioner belt is on does not line up w/the way it currently sits. Still for fun I put it on to get some ideas. Put the oil pan (held on w/three bolts) to see how it fits/sits and found a return line to test fit.



the pulleys seem to line up (even though I suck at taking pictures to illustrate that point.)



with the timing belt on, the lower guard did not fit in place, but I was more interested in the TDI injection pump bracket then the guard so I test fit things w/out it.



And my camera ran out of battery's, since I have other crap (non-car related) I need to get done so I quit for the night.

So, That's not to shabby for progress

I am trying to uncover things in my pile of jun.. I mean spare parts *grin* that I want to use on the engine (correct oil lines, etc) more progress tomorrow! (hopefully)

-Todd

[zukgod1]

Depending on your elevation I don't think your going to want to go with a larger than OE turbo. To big and it wont spool till your at the top of the RPM range.

Use the turbo off the TDI that would rock!!

I would get a Metal head gasket off a AAZ engine as well while your there.

Also the FMIC will create a problem with the cooling.

I kept wondering why my car would keep getting warm, it never got "hot" but it would warm up to the point I started to feel uncomfortable.

I replace the T stat with an OE unit and the Radiator with a larger (thickness) core and added "Water Wetter", while it was better it would still climb up on long hills.

Good luck on your build.

I climbed up under it the other day and realized the bottom 1/2 of the rad was covered by the FMIC.
So I cut the front bumper where the Euro plate would be to get more air flow through the IC and rad.
Seemed to have solved my problem other than if it's 90 deg out side and I'm climbing a steep hill for a long time it will still climb a bit temp wise..

[zukgod1]

Couple other notes.

What turbo do you currently have.


And on the trans. Unless all your doing is putting around town your going to want a taller geared trans all together.

Go here http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
This has older trans codes but may help ya.

If you go with what you have planned (adding the TDI 5th) your going to be running 65 mph @ 3000 rpm (approx) 3500 will net you 76 mph.
I was using a 205/40r16 tire for the calculation.
That's just to fast for any type of economy.
Again depends on what your going for as an end use.

[VW_Commuter]

zukgod1, I've got a 7A trans in my '91 Jetta TD and the trans program says I should be doing 2693 RPM @ 65 MPH with 195/50R15 tires.  Not to hijack this thread but is a 7A transaxle good for our 1.6L TD's?  Fuslit, what are the ratios of your current trans?

[Dr. Diesel]

hey,
if you have a small turbo, T2/k14 or k03-003 keep it. 1.6's desperately need more bottom end power, and putting a larger, slow spooling turbo is going to hurt driveability.
Toss that 3 puck clutch junk too. You'll want to commit suicide within a day of driving that!

[zukgod1]

hey,
if you have a small turbo, T2/k14 or k03-003 keep it. 1.6's desperately need more bottom end power, and putting a larger, slow spooling turbo is going to hurt driveability.

Exactly!!!!

Toss that 3 puck clutch junk too. You'll want to commit suicide within a day of driving that!

If it has a sprung center it may not be to bad but if it's solid I will agree. Toss that thing to someone that races.

[zukgod1]

zukgod1, I've got a 7A trans in my '91 Jetta TD and the trans program says I should be doing 2693 RPM @ 65 MPH with 195/50R15 tires.  Not to hijack this thread but is a 7A transaxle good for our 1.6L TD's?  Fuslit, what are the ratios of your current trans?

I dont know where the "sweet spot" is for our engine, hopefully someone will chime in.
I try to keep my freeway cruising to 3000 or lower just for fuel economy reasons.
I dont think you will hurt anything @ 2700 or even 3800 for that matter.
Just depends on what your using it for.

[jtanguay]

'sweet spot' is as low as you can get.  some will argue soot buildup will occur down low, but i believe that is only when accelerating too hard in a gear too low.  good way to needlessly burn oil as well.  if you can run 100km/h @ 1500 rpm on the highway, do it.  you'd be getting into 60 mpg territory right there  :wink:

[kane66]

for best fuel economy per hp/kw produced it is 1800 rpms. The info is floating around the internet some where. I posted it over on the vortex but no one seemed much interested.
at 1800 rpms the 1.6 uses 264 grams/kwh (kilowatt hour) of work
diesel weighs between 820-950 grams/liter ~ 885 grams/liter
so if at 1800 rpms it uses 264 grams/kwh
885/264=3.35 kwh/liter of fuel
1 horsepower = .75 kwh
3.35/.75= 4.46 hp/liter
1 liter=3.79 gallons
4.46*3.79= 16.92 hph/gal (horse power hours/gallon)

[zukgod1]

for best fuel economy per hp/kw produced it is 1800 rpms. The info is floating around the internet some where. I posted it over on the vortex but no one seemed much interested.
at 1800 rpms the 1.6 uses 264 grams/kwh (kilowatt hour) of work
diesel weighs between 820-950 grams/liter ~ 885 grams/liter
so if at 1800 rpms it uses 264 grams/kwh
885/264=3.35 kwh/liter of fuel
1 horsepower = .75 kwh
3.35/.75= 4.46 hp/liter
1 liter=3.79 gallons
4.46*3.79= 16.92 hph/gal (horse power hours/gallon)

Eyes glaze over........

No wonder no one showed any interest, what the heck does this really mean as far as fuel economy goes?? And are you taking into consideration the load placed on the engine while going 1800 rpms is say 4th gear?
Looks like your figures are unladen.?

[kane66]

in 4th gear at 1800 rpms doing what... going up hill... going down hill... traveling on flat ground.....
The figures are what they are. The 1.6 produces the most power per volume of fuel at 1800 rpms. The numbers don't reflect any real world situations... since it varies so much. I.E. how much fuel consumed going up hill at 1800 rpms. vrs. traveling on flat ground at 1800 rpms. The figure simply shows that all conditions being the same the engine will consume the least fuel at 1800 rpms...... and that if the engine produces 16.92 horse power (continuously for an hour) it will use 1 gallon of fuel.

In ideal conditions it would be best to gear a 1.6 to stay in the 1800  rpm range while traveling at the speed it sees most. I.E. 1800 at 60 mph in 5th gear. Unfortunately in real world conditions it might take more hp than the 1.6 produces at 1800 rpms to keep it at that speed.

any way hope this helps explain what it all means.

[jtanguay]

just by changing the turbo you could change the spec fuel consumption etc.

vnt-15 with intercooler and voila. 1500 rpms is now the 'sweet spot'

[Dr. Diesel]

I think that to a large degree friction plays a factor here.
To maintain a given speed, it takes X HP. You can make that HP over a wide range of RPM with a given engine.
All things being equal, this HP demand requires X amount of fuel per time, as stated above. So really, it shouldn't make any difference whether you're using a light accelerator  pedal and high rpm  (moderate torque x high revs to hold the given speed) or pedal to the metal and low rpm (big torque and low revs).
Except that in this case (and pretty well every other stinking thing in life  :roll: ) all things aren't equal.
The moderate torque X high rpm approach suffers from more internal engine friction/time than the low rpm approach.
So by accomplishing the work needed to hold the given speed at a lower rpm, you're not producing as much negative hp (frictionxtime) and therefore use less fuel.
 
It's 6:17 am, and i'm working nightshift. So if none of that made any sense, just ignore me. I'll be better after some sleep. Goodnight.