Alternative valve / TDC timing methods?

[Spokerider]

I've posted this on another diesel site.......hoping for a little more input as not much response save for one kind responder. Thanks!

I bought a 1.9 TD aaz long-block along with a box of almost all of the external engine parts to install. The engine has only the crank gear loosely bolted on at this time. This engine was rebuilt......pistons, rings, seals, bearings, head done etc by a Mercedes auto repair shop, and was purchased from them in this long block form.........

Question: I understand the concept of valve timing, and then inj. pump timing, but, how do I go about the valve timing proceedure when I have no flywheel, vw transmission [ to align timing marks ], as I'm going to install this in my 1991 Automatic Tracker with a conversion kit from ACME.

Further........the camshaft timing notch appears to be 180 deg out, as the notch in the cam, although parallel with the top of the cyl head, is situated below the level of the cyl head to valve cover surface. I can't get a cam alignment tool down there. The cam lobes on cyl #4 appear to be "lobe-up", and cyl #1 thet appear to be "lobe-down".

I have no idea if the cam and crank are assembled / timed together when the head was installed. One would *think* a Mercedes repair shop would get it done right.........

None of the gears / pulleys are in place yet. I can turn the crank easily by hand 20 deg or so each direction, before "resistance" is noted and the cranks ceases to turn easily.......obviously, I don't force it from there.

How can I get the crank and cam into sync with each other to safely rotate both to get the cam notch right-side-up?

Also, any ideas on making some kind of timing locator on the front of the engine [ as a Tracker trans does not have a timing alignment hole in it ] and crank pulley

[Spokerider]

Here is a follop-up post.....me trying to clarify my first post.

Again........sorry for the "copy and paste ' post, but man! I type slow......



I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the cam is 180 deg off from where it needs to be to insert the cam alignment tool. The cam lobes for cyl 4 are angled up but not directly straight up, as in ? TDC. And, the cam lobes for cyl 1 are not up, but rather angled downward, as in not TDC. Cylinders 1 and 4 ought to be the reverse of this I believe for beginning the valve timing process.

Now, the engine is in the long block state..........the only gear / pulley on the engine is the crank gear loosely held on with th e bolt [ just for me to be able to grab something to turn the crank over with ] No belts, covers, inj pump etc is in place right now.

When I observe the piston orientation with the oil pan off, I see both cyl 1 and 4 are at TDC. Having the engine on an engine stand makes flipping it around easy........

Also, with the injectors and glowplugs out, there [ ? shouldn't ? ] be any compression building / noted when hand-turning the engine, correct?

I *think* that when assembling a head onto the block, as in initial assembly after a re-build, the cyl 1 piston needs to be at the top of the bore and the cam lobes for cyl 1 need to be pointing up [ both valves closed ] This is what I read in the Haynes VW repair book I have.

Like I was saying.......you'd think a rebuild shop would have this right.......or, I may well be all wrong with my interpretation of things.......

Anyway, I'm wondering how I can get the cam notch the right way up. Somehow, I gotta turn both the crank and cam, each a little a time untill things get aligned?? Don't wanna have to take the head off, turn the cam right way up and then reinstall. Gotta be an easier way.

Once I get that issue dealt with, I'll need to figure a way to put timing marks on the crank damper and engine gear case cover for future TDC reference.

Wondering, could I determine TDC of cyl 1 by mounting a magnetic-base dial guage to the block bottom / oil pan surface and use the dial guage to read from the cyl 1 bearing cap as I rotate the crank counter and clockwise, thus showing the furthest travel of the bearing cap?

[Vincent Waldon]

If you look here there's (eventually) a picture of what #1's lobes look like when the cam is up... they are not so much straight up:

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

You can use a dial indicator to find TDC...  I'd just recommend indexing on either side of TDC and finding the exact middle, since the crank can rotate quite a bit at TDC without much piston movement.

There's an official tool to find TDC with no tranny but I've never seen a source.

[CoolAirVw]

Here's a good thread with some smart guy!    :lol:    :roll:  :wink:

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8452

[jimfoo]

Also, if you turn the engine until it is halfway to TDC, you can then turn the cam to where it needs to be as all pistons are halfway up/down. Once the cam is right, you should then be able to turn the crank. There should only be a little resistance with the glowplugs out, though if it was rebuilt, rings and bearings will be a bit tight.

[jimfoo]

I filed a notch in the cover over the back of the harmonic balancer, then put a mark in the balancer when it's at exactly TDC.

[jimfoo]

But he has no timing belt on, so has to turn the engine, then the cam.

[Vincent Waldon]

But he has no timing belt on, so has to turn the engine, then the cam.

I'm a chicken, so I always unbolt the cam saddles in this case.

Rotate the engine into TDC, install the cam lock, and then bolt down the cam.  No danger of valve collision.

[Op-Ivy]

Also, with the injectors and glowplugs out, there [ ? shouldn't ? ] be any compression building / noted when hand-turning the engine, correct?

Correct. So if it feels like there is strong resistance, something may not be right.


Where in BC are you?

[Spokerider]

Vince, thanks for the link!

Jimfoo, thanks for the tip on turning thr crank to 1/2 way to tdc, and then correcting the cam orientation. I like your thoughts on the timing marks....I'll prolly do something similar...


CoolAir,  :oops:  :oops:    :wink:  Thanks for the posts. You must have just posted as I signed off and left for work!

libby, thanks for the one revolution away from tdc post. I'm learning tons from you guys.

Op, Im in Victoria, on the Island.