Author Topic: svo emissions  (Read 3927 times)

June 23, 2008, 09:33:56 am

shegel

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 312
svo emissions
« on: June 23, 2008, 09:33:56 am »
svo i thought was  a lot cleaner than diesel. but i recently got into an arguement with a highschool punk who  told me (he was very convinced) that svo was  worse on emissions and you took a 30% power hit when you ran it.

my fathers 93 f-350 265,000 passed emissions with flying colors but i wanna know if it was cause of the svo or the health of the engine/ip/all that stuff
1986 Golf 1.6l non turbo (R.I.P.)
1999.5 jetta (bought with 122145)
1969 karmann ghia(diesel swap dream)(most likely going to be subaru powered)
1998 jetta tdi (parents car)

Reply #1June 23, 2008, 06:43:37 pm

Mark(The Miser)UK

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1557
svo emissions
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 06:43:37 pm »
Heated SVO has maybe 5% less power, however on an olderpump the greater viscosity improves efficiency and reduces the difference. Can't remember the emissions differences but there's littlein it maybe higher NOx but no sulfur...
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #2June 24, 2008, 07:49:11 am

the caveman

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1739
svo emissions
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 07:49:11 am »
Most tests results i've seen will show most emmissions are lower with both VO and WVO. Biodiesel will also lower everything except in some cases raises NOx. There have been a couple of studies that show that it could be higher on VO but they seem to be with VO other that canola . Soya for example can be problamatic. Even if they were the same as with diesel at least using WVO is extremely carbon neutral. Using WVO CANNOT be worse than dino fuels.
" I'm a vegetarian,not because i love animals, it's because i hate plants"
1970 Type 3 fastback
1972 Renault 12
1971 Super Beetle 140 HP 159 ft lbs
1987 Fox
1989 TD Jetta
1990 Fox
1989 Fox
1998 TDI Jetta
1990 T3 German MIL Transporter 1.9 na Giles super pump
1997 Jetta GLX TDI

Reply #3June 24, 2008, 12:37:25 pm

Vanagoner

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 219
svo emissions
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 12:37:25 pm »
As to efficiency, I've heard 15% is about the maximum potential difference, but most studies show less loss in the real world- especially when lubricity enters the picure, then it is about 5%.  I'm not expert, just what I've read.
I heard that VO can wash down past the rings and wreck the lubricating oil over time, so that more frequent oil changes are required.  Is that so?
Sage
'82  Vanagon Westy, the mighty N/A

Reply #4June 24, 2008, 12:47:43 pm

the caveman

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1739
svo emissions
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 12:47:43 pm »
Wear issues can be prevented by only using VO once the motor is warm.
Also changing the motor oil at about 2/3 less milage i.e. instead of dumping it evry 8000kms, change it at 5000.
Motor oil contamination is one of the only drawbacks to converting to VO.
" I'm a vegetarian,not because i love animals, it's because i hate plants"
1970 Type 3 fastback
1972 Renault 12
1971 Super Beetle 140 HP 159 ft lbs
1987 Fox
1989 TD Jetta
1990 Fox
1989 Fox
1998 TDI Jetta
1990 T3 German MIL Transporter 1.9 na Giles super pump
1997 Jetta GLX TDI

Reply #5June 24, 2008, 10:40:14 pm

Turbofan

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 70
svo emissions
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 10:40:14 pm »
http://www.greasecar.com/tech.cfm

This guy Michal Vojtisek-Lom, runs many of the government emissions programs in the Czech- Republic (presently). He was working with the NY State emissions programs at the time of these tests.

Here's his old page.

http://www.buffalobiodiesel.org/michal/michal.htm

Reply #6June 25, 2008, 07:17:22 am

Greasecar

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 126
    • http://www.greasecar.com
svo emissions
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 07:17:22 am »
We have a number of emissions labe tests that have been conducted.  Below is an overview but the tables would not paste into the post.  I'll have to figure out a way to either save them as an image file or post a PDF.

Vegetable Oil Emissions

As with all internal combustion engines, diesels produce many gases and substances that can cause serious health problems. In 2007, ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel and on-board emissions controls on new vehicles have greatly reduced the emissions of many of these substances. But diesels are very durable, and vehicles without these emissions controls will remain on the roads for decades to come. Vegetable oil has have been proven to reduce overall emissions of the key pollutants in diesel vehicle exhaust.

•   Hydrocarbons: Also known as aromatic hydrocarbons. These include the carcinogenic byproducts of burning diesel fuel, like benzene and its derivatives. Hydrocarbons stick to particulate matter (PM), which in turn lodges in the human body, where the hydrocarbons can cause asthma, cardiovascular problems and cancer. Hydrocarbons also react with nitrogen oxides and sunlight to form smog, which is a serious health threat in congested urban areas.

Vegetable oil and Hydrocarbons: Vegetable oil shows substantial decreases in HC emissions in all kinds of driving conditions. Depending on the vehicle and driving situation, reductions can reach 35%.

•   NOx: Nitrogen oxides cause a huge number of major public health concerns. Along with hydrocarbons, NO2 is a major component of smog (that’s why smog looks brown). It has been linked to lung diseases and other respiratory failures, especially in combination with other vehicle emissions. Nitrogen oxides can also turn into nitric acid, and they also turn sulfur dioxide, another vehicle emission, into sulfuric acid. Nitric acid and sulfuric acid are the two ingredients of acid rain.

Vegetable oil and NOx: Vegetable oil is the only alternative to diesel fuel that shows consistent, across-the-board reductions in nitrogen oxides in all driving conditions. Emissions tests have shown reductions up to 25%. Biodiesel actually shows a consistent increase in NOx emissions.

•   CO2: Carbon dioxide’s greenhouse effects are well-known and well-documented. Petroleum fuels take buried, harmless carbon, in the form of petroleum, and spew it into the atmosphere, increasing the level of carbon dioxide and contributing to global warming.

Vegetable oil and CO2: Vegetable oil is what’s called carbon-neutral, which means that it does not add anything to the amount of carbon dioxide in the air. This is because the plants that the oil came from absorbed that same amount of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere while they were growing. Using vegetable oil as fuel does not contribute to global warming.

•   CO: Carbon monoxide is highly toxic and impairs the ability of blood to transport oxygen to the brain. Through chemical reactions with other gases in the atmosphere, it also slows the dispersal of ground-level ozone.

Vegetable oil and CO: Although vegetable oil shows increased CO emissions over diesel, they are still well below even the cleanest gasoline engines. This is due to a relatively lean fuel-to-air mixture, even at full load. This quality is inherent to diesel engines. Gasoline emissions of CO can be over ten times that of diesels.

•   PM: Particulate matter, also known as aerosols, is essentially the vehicle that carries the carcinogenic aromatic hydrocarbons into the body. The particles in diesel PM are very small, about 100 nanometers, and they easily pass into the lungs and can sometimes pass straight through them and into other organs. Particulate matter is mostly soot, or unburned carbon. Diesel particulate matter also contains sulfur, which cause acid rain as well as asthma and other respiratory problems.

Vegetable oil and PM: Vegetable oil contains no sulfur, so vegetable oil PM does not cause acid rain. And there is some indication that the particles in vegetable oil PM may be much larger than in diesel fuel and may be safely filtered out by the nose and throat. Vegetable oil has also shown vast overall reductions in particulate matter, although it does show an increase in PM emissions during stop-and-go city driving. Preliminary studies have shown that this tendency can be easily reduced with simple computer module tuning.

Another overall advantage inherent to diesel engines is their efficiency – by some calculations, they are 40% more efficient that gas engines. In our many years of experience, we have found that vegetable oil has no effect on fuel economy or power.

While the vehicles tested represent only a small cross-section of the national diesel fleet, straight vegetable oil as fuel has shown consistent and considerable reductions in tailpipe emissions.  In addition to being clean, it’s also renewable. And vegetable oil can be produced domestically, increasing our energy independence and the stability of our energy infrastructure.


 

Oil tested: Non-hydrogenated canola oil settled and filtered to 10 microns.
Source: Restaurant waste oil dumpster

Parameter:   Results   ASTM Method
API Gravity @60F   22.0   ASTM D-287
Ash%   <0.005   ASTM D-482
BTU/Gal   130,660   ASTM D-240
BTU/Lb   17,001   ASTM D-240
Carbon, %   77.9   ASTM D-5291
Flash Point, F   <230   ASTM D-93
Hydrogen, %   11.4   ASTM D-5291
Nitrogen, %   <0.10   ASTM D-5373
Oxygen, %   10.7   ASTM D-5373
Pounds per Gal   7.685   
Specific Gravity @60F   0.9218   ASTM D-287
Sulfur, %   <0.05   ASTM D-1552
Viscosity, KinematicCST @40C   33.7   ASTM D-445
www.greasecar.com
79 Mini diesel (1.5 Peugeot)
82 rabbit TD (given to Junkcollector Jay)
84 rabbit TD (intercooled w/ VNT)
82 rabbit PD (undergoing swap)
01 Golf TDI (burned to the ground)
02 Golf TDI (355,000 miles and counting)
04 Passat TDI Wagon (Grocery getter)

Reply #7June 27, 2008, 06:09:23 am

Greasecar

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 126
    • http://www.greasecar.com
svo emissions
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2008, 06:09:23 am »
Here are the average numbers for different drive cycles on a couple of the emissions tests we ran.  The first is a 2003 Jetta the second is a 1999 F-350.  The Jetta was tested on an actual driving course with a mobile analyzer so each driving leg was a bit different which you can see in tome of the numbers.  The Ford was tested on a dyno using EPA drive cycles (sets of 3 for each fuel + cycle combination).  If you look at the real rime charts the numbers go up and down in relation to eachother based on engine load and other factors.  The more load on the engine the better is tends to perform on an emissions level at least in terms of HC.





The Ford on the dyno at the NY DEC lab.


Here is the mobile analyzer, during this test we were able to run two, pre and post cat.  
www.greasecar.com
79 Mini diesel (1.5 Peugeot)
82 rabbit TD (given to Junkcollector Jay)
84 rabbit TD (intercooled w/ VNT)
82 rabbit PD (undergoing swap)
01 Golf TDI (burned to the ground)
02 Golf TDI (355,000 miles and counting)
04 Passat TDI Wagon (Grocery getter)

Reply #8June 27, 2008, 06:44:29 am

shegel

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 312
svo emissions
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 06:44:29 am »
thank you that is exactly what i was looking for

if you wouldnt mind un abreviating a couple things for me though

LA92?

HWFE?

NYCC?

US06?

thanks again,
steve
1986 Golf 1.6l non turbo (R.I.P.)
1999.5 jetta (bought with 122145)
1969 karmann ghia(diesel swap dream)(most likely going to be subaru powered)
1998 jetta tdi (parents car)

Reply #9June 27, 2008, 09:09:03 am

Greasecar

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 126
    • http://www.greasecar.com
svo emissions
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 09:09:03 am »
Those are the different EPA drive cycles.  NYC for example is based on a stop and go NY city drive, HWFE is Highway fuel economy and LA 92 is an aggressive highway cycle.  These tests are all conducted on the dyno like a video game.  A monitor is suction cupped to the windshield and the driver has to keep the acceleration and speed in line with the pre determined drive cycle for repeatability. Each cycle is run 3 time on each fuel.
www.greasecar.com
79 Mini diesel (1.5 Peugeot)
82 rabbit TD (given to Junkcollector Jay)
84 rabbit TD (intercooled w/ VNT)
82 rabbit PD (undergoing swap)
01 Golf TDI (burned to the ground)
02 Golf TDI (355,000 miles and counting)
04 Passat TDI Wagon (Grocery getter)