TDC on converted Vanagon with 1.9 TD

[Sam Johnson]

We installed a 1.9 TD at 50 degrees in my 1988 Vanagon.   We used the standard conversion kit including a diesel Vanagon bellhousing.   When the mechanic installed it he told me he had trouble identifying TDC but somehow he was able to install a new timing belt and the timing has been right on.  Unfortunately, he did not make any TDC marks.

A couple of weeks ago the IP started leaking.  At first I was looking at the o-ring replacement but decided that the other seals were proably equally old so have sent the IP for a complete reseal.  It is to be back this weekend.

However, now that I look at my setup I do not appear to have any TDC marks.  There are not any I can see on the pulley off the crank nor is there an arrow on the timing belt cover.  I have the inspection hole for the TDC mark but as this is on a bellhousing for a different engine it is not located in a direct line with the crank and the block.  

When I look inside the timing mark hole I see what I suspect is the edge of the pressure plate.  Is this normal for these 50 degree conversions??   If so what should I see to know I am at TDC??

When I took it off I put it at TDC and locked the cam shaft.  The IP was locked using the standard tool but of course now it is off.  However, I can reinstall the pully and line it up with the key and with the hole on the pulley.   Before I removed the timing belt I marked the crank pulley and the pulley off the crank for the alt but I am not certain well enough and cannot be 100% certain the crank pulley has not moved slightly or will not move slightly when I reinstall the timing belt.

With the IDI engine is there any other way to determine TDC if there are no TDC marks??   If the information is useful, I have a serpentine timing belt, a serpentine belt for the alt and a small v-belt for the PS.

When the IP returns I can reinstall the timing belt.  Once the IP is installed I can hand crank the engine to ensure there are no internal problems but still am concerned I may be off a tooth as at this stage I do not know TDC.  I also need TDC to time the IP.

Appreciate any suggestions and wisdom.

Sam,
Tucson, AZ

[the caveman]

There may be marks on the front flange of the pump and bracket that will be very close to your IP timing. Also look at the front pulley. There may be marks on the pulley which match marks on the timing cover. Last resort is to pull #1 injector, and determine TDC from your piston position.

[Sam Johnson]

Caveman,

As this is a 1.9 TD (IDI) engine and not a TDI it has a prechamber before the combustion chamber.  In this case I believe that you cannot pull an injector and directly measure the level of the piston??  Please let me know if this is incorrect as it would possibly provide a means of measuring TDC off the piston level in the first cylinder.

Regards,  Sam
Tucson, AZ

[the caveman]

Just don't stick anything too stiff or make you are paying attention when turning the crank and piston up so you don't jam or break anything .

[Sam Johnson]

Andrew and Caveman,

Thanks for the picture--it was worth 1000 words.  Also thanks to Caveman for indicating one must be very careful what they insert.  On another forum one individual indicated that there is a little movement of the crank while the piston reaches TDC and then starts to reverse.  Using the stiff object in the hole system, is there any way to know when you are at exact TDC.

With respect to the TDC hole, if there is no painted mark for TDC, with the engine installed at 50 degrees and using the Vanagon diesel bellhousing, is there any unique kind of special point one should look for?  If available, another of your 1000 word pictures would be appreciated.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Sam
Tucson, AZ

[jimfoo]

You can make a mark at a specific height before TCD, then make another mark when it is at the same height after TDC. TDC is in the center of the 2 marks.

[westyman]

Are you using the stock diesel Vanagon pressure plate? If so, it will have a V notch in the PP that is the TDC mark. Nothing on the flywheel.

[Sam Johnson]

Westyman,

Thanks for the information about the v-notch.  I cannot see the flywheel itself but can see bits and pieces of what I assume is the pressure plate including the bolts that attach it.   There is a kind of notch that I think is the point I want but am unsure.   Any idea what I should be able to see the 2-3 inches before the v-notch and 2-3 inches after the v-notch?  Does anyone have a picture of a pressure plate that shows this notch??

Regards,  Sam
Tucson, AZ

[Sam Johnson]

Found TDC!!

Yesterday I took all accessory pulleys and belts off in order to remove the lower timing cover.  This morning I installed a lower timing belt cover that had the arrow to mark TDC.  I also installed a crankcase pulley that is marked for TDC.  Using those I found the v-notch for TDC in the flywheel hole.  Once I marked this, I reinstalled my lower timing belt cover and crankcase pulley and marked TDC on both of those.  

After all this I was able to install my timing belt without fear of interference.  I was also able to time my IP.  As soon as I install the rest of the belts I am going to bleed it and, hopefully, start the engine.

Thanks for all the advice.

Regards,  Sam
Tucson, AZ

[gigaz2]

that notch might not be true TDC
 
have you checked with the thin screwdiver method?

[Sam Johnson]

Gigaz2,

Thanks for your question and concern.   No I did not use the thin screwdriver through the injector hole.   However, using a lower timing belt cover with the TDC mark I was able to line up the TDC mark on the lower timing cover with the TDC mark on the pulley.  Using this I installed the timing belt with the cam shaft and IP sprockets locked and TDC mark on the pulley.  Based on this the arrow in the flywheel hole lined up right in the middle of the notch.  I did 4 revolutions of the crankshaft just to insure there was no interference.

More importantly, yesterday I reinstalled all the belts and after bleeding the air from the injector lines the engine cranked right up.  I drove it for a short trip and the timing seemed to be right on.  Today I will take it on a longer trip but feel confident it is the correct TDC mark.

Regards,  Sam
Tucson, AZ