Author Topic: I got my A/C working again!!!! (Read 10139 times)

mtnbob · « **on:** May 22, 2008, 09:43:03 pm »

My 86 1.6 N/A Golf has always had A/C. It just never worked. The car sat for almost 6 years unused before I got it running and back to my house. I never had much hope for the A/C working again, but it is hot here in S.C., so I hoped that I could get it going someday. I decided to buy a R-134 retrofit kit. It included 3 cans of R134 plus oil and seal rejuvenator. I was only able to get the valve adapter on the low pressure side, which is fine since that's the side you fill from. I only got about 1 1/2 cans to go into my system, due to the dispenser breaking, and I only was able to half charge the system, but it immediately started working once it got to approximately 1/2 full. The compressor kicked in and the fan started working for the first time in 2 years that I've had it. Now if I can just get all of the leaves out of the air ducts(not sure how to clean them out), and put another can and half in the A/C, I'll be very happy. :lol:

Possum79 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2008, 09:52:49 pm »

congrats.

May I ask what your using to measure the proper dose of 134A. Is it one of those cheap gauges that come with the kits or an actually ac manifold? Also what about the oil, is it mixed in with the 134a or did you add is seperate. if so how much? :lol:

Im nosy because i want to fix mine due to heat getting in the 100's here already.

Dakotakid · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2008, 01:05:08 am »

I did this to 4 cars so far. On the first, I purchased a kit like this. On the rest of the cars, I purchased the oil/134 combo can seperately and then just bought the small cans of 134 seperately as well. I am able to buy this stuff at an O'Reilly auto parts store.

I just use the cheapie guage and stop adding 134 when it gets reasonably cold in the car. Not overly scientific, but it has been keeping me comfortable for 4 years. I've never hurt a compressor or popped a line or anything.

Walmart will sell the small cans of 134 for a little over $6.00 in the off-season. It isn't quite as cold as R12 was but it is sure adequate here in SD when it is over 100 F. I carry the cheapie filler and a can of 134 with me all summer. Everybody I know laughed and said it wouldn't work. I just wave at them from the cool interior of the car!!!

jtanguay · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2008, 04:34:07 am »

you need to watch out for under charging the system though... it can lead to more frequent compressor cycles and thus creating more heat/stress on it. plus with r134a the compressor head temps are much higher.

just something to think about :wink:

how long have you guys ran r134a in your cars? any retrofitting done. ie: seals, etc. other than the low side fitting? r134a is comprised of three different gases all working together. one has a small molecule that leaks out much faster than old r12. and that is why i'm curious

i've been using the hydrocarbon refrigerant with great success so far. up here in Canada we can't buy r134a without a licence... something to do with it burning a hole in the ozone if it leaks out :roll:

mtnbob · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2008, 05:57:15 am »

I just purchased the kit which included 3 cans of 134a plus oil, low side adapter, and trigger/pressure gauge. I put in 1 1/2 cans and it is right between low and full. I probably need 1 more can to get it to perfect.

Dakotakid · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2008, 09:39:57 am »

Yes, I do understand the need to have a sufficient quantity of 134a in the system to keep the pump from wearing out it's clutch. I replaced the o-rings at the hose attachment sites at the back of the pump and the two on either end of the (is it....) condensor as I had it and radiator out for repair work on the first two cars.

Minute leaks are evident on the line which the low and high switches are attached. This is because little spots of oil ooze through. That occurred on the car that has over 400,000 miles on it. The slightly newer cars don't do that. Even with the one which leaked, it would take less than half a can every two weeks to keep it working very well (about $3.00).

The "tighter"cars usually only need 1/2 to 3/4 of a can after sitting all winter. For me, it is a great thing to be able to do myself. But I am confused....I thought it was R12 which damaged the atmosphere.....NOT 134a. The Americans need a license to purchase and use R12.

If one is worried about the ozone.....get the U.S. government to quit their "experiments" with the H.A.R.P. communication/weather modification/God only knows what else system they have up in Alaska. As I understand that, every time they fire it up it destroys a 12 (or so) mile square space of ozone. Just a thought............

Possum79 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2008, 12:15:36 pm »

R12 is ozone depleting and R134a is global warming. Learned that from jtanguay. The hydrocarbon junk sounds like it doesn't do either. Doesn't sound leagal though were I'm at.

jtanguay · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2008, 02:05:09 pm »

hehe i was just being sarcastic about the ozone thing... just because the government won't allow us to purchase r134a without a licence, because we *might* accidently let it leak out into the atmosphere! OH NO!!! i think there are worse things than that.... especially me driving by with my foot planted to the floor :lol:

but yea the hydrocarbon stuff is superior. one large molecule that leaks out much less frequently, lower head temps, and some speculate that it is a few degree's cooler than even R12, and much cooler than r134a. r134a requires a synthetic lubricant due to its higher head temps.. if you don't change the R12 oil, it will turn thick and gooey and not do its job properly. with the hydrocarbon refrigerant, you don't need to change the oil. i've tried without even adding a sealer or changing any seals, and my car's a/c ran perfect for the amount of time the rad fan worked. then it quit, and while removing it my a/c condensor hose broke :evil: so the i replaced it and put some new o-rings while i was in there.

Possum79 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2008, 04:14:53 pm »

I know its just hippie talk :wink:

but hey if you catch someone in California releasing it into the atmosphere you can turn them in for 25,000$ reward if caught in the act.

I could get lots of car parts

:twisted:

Sam Johnson · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2008, 01:13:42 pm »

A/C Time!

It is already over 104 F (40 C) in Tucson and I am under strict orders to get the A/C working on my Vanagon. This is a 1988 Vanagon GL that I just converted to diesel-1.9 TD. The problem I have is that the engine came from Germany and does not have an A/C bracket. Since the AAZ was not sold in the US, and only a limited number of the right year VWs with TDIs in the SW, it has proven almost impossible to find this bracket in Southern Arizona.

Right now my Vanagon is at the shop and they are trying to determine if they can fabricate a bracket to mount the A/C compressor so that it runs off the same belt as the PS. I have been told that the diesel engine vibrates quite a bit and this is not easy to do. Has anyone ever fabricated a bracket for an A/C on their vehicle?? If so did it function okay?? Any suggestions?? Advice is appreciated!

If they fabricate a bracket and install the compressor I will need to have A/C connecting lines fabricated as it is on the passenger side rather than the driver side as with the waterboxer engine. Fortunately, that is the easy part.

I have the Sanden A/C compressor. This is 20 years old but was working before I changed engines so I plan to keep it. However, some advice. Should I change it to the new gas or leave it with the old gas? What are the pros and cons? Either way I think I need to have the compressor serviced at a good A/C shop to insure it is as efficient as possible. What should this involve? Or would it make more sense to bite the bullet and purchase a remanufactured more up-to-date compressor? Would one from a newer VW work with the rest of the A/C system in my Vanagon?

Finally, what is this hydrocabon gas mentioned? It this a viable alternative in the US? If so where do you purchase it??

Thanks for any advice and suggestions.

Sam,
Tucson, AZ

Possum79 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2008, 01:54:43 pm »

According to sites like duracool.com they sell it directly to people in the us. I cannot tell if its legal to use though in automotive ac. The hyrocarbon gas or 12a is bigger molecules so it doesnt leak out as easy and is supposedly environmentally safe.

if you leave your old r12 in the system it will be fine if its fully charged otherwise that stuff is going to run you $$$. switching to r-134a is supposedly cheaper but doesnt cool as efficent.

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2008, 07:35:39 pm »

I've been using products from envirosafe http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm in my Audi sedans for several years. Supposedly not as explosive as the hydrocarbon stuff and supposedly legal in the US. They claim it mixes with R12.

Possum79 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2008, 09:26:00 am »

A quote from that site

"Q: Can I legally mix Enviro-Safe ™ Refrigerant with R-12 or HFC-134a?

A: The United Sates Environmental Agency (EPA) prohibits the mixing of certain types of refrigerant that are not already "pre-approved mixes". Although mechanically there is no risk of incompatibility, there is legislation that prohibits such acts. (Although it will certainly work well as a replacement for either R-12 or 134a, if your car is still an R-12 unit it would first have to be defined as a 134a or other type of non-ozone-depleting unit before you could legally install it)."

Thats interesting that you must define the vehicle as 134a if you were on r12 before you can go to the 12a.

Sounds like its legal here in the us and when i get some extra money i shall find out if i like it.

side note this is the same stuff as duracool and its less explosive then 134a. It is a hydrocarbon product.

jtanguay · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2008, 10:00:14 am »

Quote from: "Kneale Brownson"

I've been using products from envirosafe http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm in my Audi sedans for several years. Supposedly not as explosive as the hydrocarbon stuff and supposedly legal in the US. They claim it mixes with R12.

here in Canada it's illegal to mix, but yes the hydrocarbon will work just fine if it is mixed.

i've heard guys say that r134a isn't explosive/doesn't burn... well i'd have to disagree as r134a runs much hotter, and if not installed correctly (synthetic oil should be used) it can autoignite the oil. or even on a really hot day and your fan quits on you... most likely the really small molecule will escape and you won't get any cooling anymore, even though there is a charge...

Ziptar · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2008, 10:47:48 am »

I plan on using envirosafe, duarcool, or RedTek when I do the Jetta, it's been converted to R-134A already but it's leaked out. When I get around to it I have all new seals.

My main reason for wanting to use those is that i have read that they aren't as hard on old R12A compressors as R-134A, is more efficient and cools better than R-134A and requires less head pressure that R-134A, less horse power drain on the engine and MPG is better.

Good thread about all of that on the Samba