Author Topic: has 1.6tdi been done? (Read 24049 times)

gigaz2 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2008, 09:43:51 am »

I would't buy anything new apart from seals, gaskets.. as long as there is ebay.de

rallydiesel · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2008, 10:54:24 pm »

Why would you reuse the IDI head? Unless you fill-welded the pre-cups, it would still be an IDI whether you used TDI pistons or not.

jtanguay · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2008, 12:40:57 am »

Quote from: "rallydiesel"

Why would you reuse the IDI head? Unless you fill-welded the pre-cups, it would still be an IDI whether you used TDI pistons or not.

i wonder if the TDI nozzles can fit through the precup hole... doubtful but what if?

rallydiesel · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2008, 12:49:41 am »

I guess that's what he's thinking. I'm pretty sure the cost of machining out bores for the TDI injectors in an IDI head would be pretty close to just getting a bare TDI head. Plus, there's the problem of relocating the glowplugs.

Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

gigaz2 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2008, 06:53:49 am »

that conversion wouldn't have room for glowplugs, what is bad for cold climates.

I just went measuring my spare 1.6TD head and a tdi injector and I believe it IS possible to make a conversion, almost plug and play even

uploading pictures, will post them asap

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 14, 2008, 07:37:59 am »

Quote from: "rallydiesel"

I guess that's what he's thinking. I'm pretty sure the cost of machining out bores for the TDI injectors in an IDI head would be pretty close to just getting a bare TDI head. Plus, there's the problem of relocating the glowplugs.

Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Your not the only one

The price of a bare good TDI head vs. an IDI head are getting fairly close in price and not to mention the cost in filling in the precups, drilling out the bores for injectors...relocating glow plugs (unless you want this to be useless to anyone below the southern line).
I could see project feasibility if using a 1z/AHU head....cost effective in doing this to the IDI head? Don't think so... and there are critical angles to consider with the injector placement as well.

Argh... seems like a pretty half baked idea the more I hear about it and the idea of sleeving the block above *in one cylinder that might be out of spec* is probably one of the worst things I've ever heard of.
However, to each his own.

It'll be interesting to see the culimination of this. Hopefully others that are interested are not following this example and is using what will feasibly work out there (as there are parts that would allow it...its just sourcing them)

Joe

gigaz2 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2008, 08:14:06 am »

enough with the sleeves thing already, there are 76.5 and 77mm overbores if needed, but to source only 4 of them would be really expensive.

in order to make that price Prothe bought 200 of 76.5mm, good investment or not, at this time its the best we can get.
I have 8 of 76mm (freebies), will test fit them and hope for the best

I will measure my block, if not on spec, I won't even consider the conversion, as I can get a 1.9 tdi engine for less than the machining costs of rebuilding this one.

now for the idi head conversion, would it be possible? YES
would it be cheap, reliable? not on this lifetime.

test 1.6TD head, original VW RA/SB engine

the red circle marks where the tip of the injector would protrude with stock angle (almost stock tdi location)

the TDI injector was seating against the bottom of the orifice without the fire ring. it still needs to go in another 20mm, to the green marking aproximately.

the next two are just to put it in perspective, there are lots of room for drilling for the plugs, but this is pointless anyway.

me test fitting a gt2056V on the 1.6

jimfoo · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2008, 10:18:59 am »

I'm wondering how the injectors would be held in in the first place on an IDI head? The necessary metal is not there for the stock hold downs.

gigaz2 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2008, 10:41:56 am »

no need to worry, as its not going to happen

but I guess something could be fabbed up to hold them in place.

a gasser head would probably be easier to convert, injector in the spark plug hole for instance.

rallydiesel · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2008, 12:22:59 pm »

Does anyone know if the 1Z head would fit on the MF block?

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2008, 01:19:45 pm »

So...then, could it be done? (IDI head conversion to TDI) the real answer there is truly a no. I think we see why. If you want to do anything and cash isn't an object...then ok...go for it:)

As for the 1z and AHU heads (which are the same), I would imagine it should fit without issue on any older diesel block as they are of the same similar design. The ALH changed things in this respect. This is what I'd like to see someone do. The difference being only that early diesel blocks of course lacked oil squirters and didn' thave the "extra" hole through the block (offset from center) for oil relief (re: Hydraulic lifters) All TD blocks should be hydraulic...

There is a a thread on here AAZ to TDI conversion on here... Good for reference (though the bore there is already setup for stock TDI pistons)

Joe

itzdshtz · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2008, 03:59:10 pm »

Here are some pictures of the pre-combustion chamber, I don't think that it will pay to weld up the pre-combustion chambers and machine the head so that it will accept the TDI nozzles.
Everything is possible, but I would buy a TDI head.

Here is a GTI gasser head for gigas2

gigaz2 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2008, 07:37:47 pm »

thanks for that pic!

yes, all of this is just academic research, but that last picture makes a lot more sense than trying to fill the prechamber recess.

rallydiesel · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2008, 05:40:38 pm »

I would love a 1.6TDI. If there was a way it could work and still be affordable. I wasn't trying to flame you, just putting out some observations. There is nothing wrong with trying out different theories, that's how great things are made!

gigaz2 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2008, 06:14:06 pm »

flame? this has been one of my favorite discussions so far

I believe we now stand in a point where we almost got the "recipe" for the 1.6tdi:
-1Z head (what others could be used?)
-a good 1.6 block, that can accept stock pistons (no overbore needed)
-76,5mm pistons (we know a source, just haven't been tested yet)

then it should be a straightforward mTDI conversion, I don't believe there could be any electronics that could run this properly. but I know a few chiptuning geniuses.. who knows

to convert a IDI head for DI would be very expensive, as we can see from the last picture, a gasser head would be a better candidate (and they are a lot cheaper) but the cost of machining the head, then make inserts to properly seat the DI injectors, and a way to hold them down makes the 1Z appear a better deal.