Verdict on AMC heads please - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Verdict on AMC heads please by Dakotakid on 07 May, 2008 14:56
• I am new to this arena. I have searched for info on Prothe and the (is it...)AMC heads which he sells. Pardon me if I missed some existing info.
  
  I am interested in one of the heads which fit onto hydro N/A, '86 on blocks. This would be the model/type which utilizes the mechanical buckets and shims. Do these heads work as they should?? Do they hold up for several hundred thousand miles? Yes, I spent time on internet and looked at AMC home page. But, I prefer advice from those who live in the trenches.
  Why do I want mechanical lifters??? .....because I am a damn caveman!!!! Thank you. Charlie
• #1 by myke_w on 07 May, 2008 17:06
• Questions you should ask when buying anything for your car
  
  what's the origin of each component (and subcomponent)?
  
  is the price too good to be true?
  
  
  
  and..  a hydraulic head with mechanical lifters? sounds scary..
  
  link us to the item so we can mull it over..
   
• #2 by jtanguay on 07 May, 2008 17:30
• i prefer mechanical lifters.  i didn't mind checking my old '86 jetta.  the power difference was noticeable.  the extra oil flow does make a difference, and hydraulic lifters can stick, or not open fully under certain conditions.
  
  owning a vw is all about doing maintenance on it.  others just buy honda's and toyota's and drive those cheapies to the ground (that actually last quite a while)
  
  but back to heads... even if those non oem heads last 1/2 as long, they're cheaper than 1/2 price, and i doubt anything catastrophic would occur.  i'm a fan of oem quality, but not really the price... prothe also sells some damn cheap valves & lifters, and from what i've heard, there is only a few (maybe 2-3) companies in all of n/a making lifters.  so they must be doing something right, right?   :lol:
• #3 by RabbitJockey on 07 May, 2008 18:06
• i had a mechanical one on my old rabbit, seemed fine to me, but what do i know.
• #4 by myke_w on 08 May, 2008 05:13
• I would be most concerned about the quality of the valvetrain parts.
  
  It's a well documented fact that the AMC heads available for watercooled vanagons have really crappy valves loaded in them. They typically end up burning valves in 20-50k miles.. I see no reason to put any faith in the hard parts in any of their other heads, because they still ship the vanagon heads with the same junk valves.
  
  If I HAD to use one, I'd probably reload it with good TD valves and go on my way, but with good OE cores and replacement parts available why take the chance?
• #5 by myke_w on 08 May, 2008 06:00
• Sorry to take this off topic a bit.
  
  

  Quote from: "jtanguay"

  prothe also sells some damn cheap valves & lifters, and from what i've heard, there is only a few (maybe 2-3) companies in all of n/a making lifters.  so they must be doing something right, right?   :lol:

  
  
  Take your standard hydraulic lifter:
  
  As sold by Prothe: http://www.volkswaparts.com/034109309ADHydraulicLifter.htm
  
  As sold by Autohaus az:
  http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=s2e0azfh33sm5h550wco2m45&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1283161@JETTA%20&year=1990&cid=lifter@lifter&gid=5248@Cam%20Follower/Hydraulic%20Lifter
  
  A vendor (such as autohaus) can't possibly buy the product from top level suppliers (importers) cheap enough to even match prothe's retail price.
  
  His retail price is well below what I (and autohaus) buy them for (wholesale) and we have access to top level (and I mean first stop off the boat from Europe) suppliers.
  
  How could they possibly be so cheap? See my point? Something doesn't add up here..
  
  Prothe is not simply undercutting the competition with the same product, as conventional vendors would do (by buying more product and getting quantity discounts)... It's not because he is small and has no overhead either.
  
  He is going completely outside the loop and dealing with parts dealers and manufacturers of completely different (unknown to us) origin.
  I don't know what brand they are, but I know you've never heard of them..  I am hesitant to be too critical before the cards are on the table.
  
  I've been giving prothe a chance to tell us all about where they come from by dropping hints about its.. but he hasn't replied yet.. perhaps he can fill us in? Prothe, are you out there?
• #6 by thedeezel on 08 May, 2008 08:14
• I have been looking at the heads that Prothe sells as well, the heads are bare, so I would load them with good quailty valve train parts, I would imagine the head structure itself would be ok, as long as the surfaces aren't pitted or pourous and are flat. For $289, a new uncracked bare head looks pretty good. He doesn't even sell the correct valves to fit the heads he sells though, that kinda bothers me.
• #7 by jtanguay on 08 May, 2008 08:50
• Quote from: "thedeezel"

  I have been looking at the heads that Prothe sells as well, the heads are bare, so I would load them with good quailty valve train parts, I would imagine the head structure itself would be ok, as long as the surfaces aren't pitted or pourous and are flat. For $289, a new uncracked bare head looks pretty good. He doesn't even sell the correct valves to fit the heads he sells though, that kinda bothers me.

  
  
  i'm pretty sure he sells the right valves.  you just need to search through as they aren't all together.
  
  as for the quality, i would love to buy a bunch of parts from him to build an engine, then just drive the piss out of it and see what breaks first  :lol:
• #8 by thedeezel on 08 May, 2008 09:10
• He says right on the head description that the heads take 8mm valves and he only sells the 7mm, I have looked thru the site and havent seen the 8mm listed, but I could be wrong. You could always buy the valves and other parts from Myke_w and assmble a head too.
• #9 by thedeezel on 08 May, 2008 21:56
• Prothe: do you have the correct valves for the 1.9td AAZ head you sell, your site says it is an 8mm head and you carry the 7mm valves. If you have everything to build a complete AAZ 1.9 head I will be getting my stuff from you.
  I checked on the OEM stuff, $100 a piece for the valves is what I was quoted at the dealer in Des Moines, Ia.
  I easily run 60,000 miles a year and am interested in what kind of longevity I can get from a completely aftermarket build.
• #10 by Dakotakid on 09 May, 2008 10:12
• I appreciate the comments and want to hear more. There are no more available parts (heads especially) in my area like there used to be. I used to go to the local salvage yards and be allowed to fill the trunk with everything that would fit for.....get this....$15.............wowee!!!! But, that is a by-gone era.
  
  This week I received a rebuilt head from a highly respected and reputable rebuilder who is  familiar to you all. I shelled out over $500 for it with freight. It comes to me with a rather fatigued looking cam in it. For reasons such as this, I just have to explore new alternatives to stuff which has already been rebuilt at least once!!!! I am eager to hear more comments.
• #11 by Baxter on 09 May, 2008 16:33
• I've fitted loads of AMC heads with absolutley no problems.
  In the UK, Kolbenshmidt and AMC are part of the same company if that tells you anything.
  Also, one of the biggest engine remanufacturers, ifnot the biggest engine rebuilded - Vege use AMC heads.
  I have their catalogue DVD sat on my desk, not had time to look at it yet tho.
• #12 by jimfoo on 09 May, 2008 18:02
• If you can't find 8mm valves, you could just get 7mm guides put in the head. That's what I ended up doing when the shop doing my head couldn't find a replacement 8mm locally. Since I wanted it done yesterday, I went down the street and got a 7mm guide, valve(since I brought the wrong one) and seal.
• #13 by Dakotakid on 11 May, 2008 12:09
• I would like to report that I recently installed a set of Prothe's $189 pistons (.020 over) into a freshly bored and meticulously assmbled JK block ('84 mechanical).
  I spent time being careful with break-in as well and I continue the process. I am still under 1000 miles with it and have not yet gone beyond yield on the bolts.
  But, my point is that, so far, the pistons and rings are making me very happy. The rings clearly began to seat within 125 miles, there is NO oil consumption and the N/A power is all that it should be.
  The real evaluation will conclude about 300,000 miles from now....probably on $21 a gallon fuel.....right before the war begins.......
  BUT I just want to report on a Prothe product.
• #14 by jtanguay on 11 May, 2008 13:58
• Quote from: "Dakotakid"

  I would like to report that I recently installed a set of Prothe's $189 pistons (.020 over) into a freshly bored and meticulously assmbled JK block ('84 mechanical).
  I spent time being careful with break-in as well and I continue the process. I am still under 1000 miles with it and have not yet gone beyond yield on the bolts.
  But, my point is that, so far, the pistons and rings are making me very happy. The rings clearly began to seat within 125 miles, there is NO oil consumption and the N/A power is all that it should be.
  The real evaluation will conclude about 300,000 miles from now....probably on $21 a gallon fuel.....right before the war begins.......
  BUT I just want to report on a Prothe product.

  
  
  i've come to realization that some cheap products aren't really that bad.  you do get what you pay for, but if you're already fixing up a beater to squeeze some extra miles out of it, then why pay for a quality part that will outlive the car? sure you can pull it and install it into something else, but not everyone tends to work that way.  hope those pistons work out, and thanks for the review.  i'm currently running his TD injectors, and so far they don't seem bad, other than being a little wet around the bodies (lately they seem to be getting drier and drier)