Diesel Prices

[mdonau]

about 8,5$/gallon in Germany..

i have been driving on SVO and WVO some time now, SVO is not really critical, when it has good quality.

When driving on WVO i from time to times use biodiesel and gasoline to keep the pump clean and to avoid germs in the fuel system.

[burnt_servo]

it a 1.30 cdn here per litre right now , roughly 4.80 cdn  a american gallon , 5.80 cdn a imperial gallon .

[vegfuel]

Another concern I have is the economy. I heard that you need to advance the timing and this could have an affect.

[jtanguay]

Another concern I have is the economy. I heard that you need to advance the timing and this could have an affect.

the orifice of the nozzle in stock application isn't properly tuned to run on veg.  i would imagine replacing nozzles would be a better idea than messing with timing, although perfectly calibrating using one of those diesel pulse timing meter's while running on veg could be interesting!  i personally would like to see the difference while the system was running either fuels... i wonder if it would be that big?

[vegfuel]

Another concern I have is the economy. I heard that you need to advance the timing and this could have an affect.

the orifice of the nozzle in stock application isn't properly tuned to run on veg.  i would imagine replacing nozzles would be a better idea than messing with timing, although perfectly calibrating using one of those diesel pulse timing meter's while running on veg could be interesting!  i personally would like to see the difference while the system was running either fuels... i wonder if it would be that big?

I'm just guessing it would. I can certainly hear the effects of B99 biodiesel when run in my Golf. The engine gets real quiet and seems to not get as hot. I'm wondering if getting some of those veg nozzles to make a bigger spray pattern if it would make a difference since veg oil has more mass.

[burnt_servo]

my experience has been , a bigger issue is getting the veg oil hot enough AT the injectors .

that means running a hotter thermostat , and a proper heat exchanger .

i've seen too many veg oil systems run too cool causing various problems .

the hotter the veg oil is ( using coolant as the heat source ) the closer it is to acting like diesel. meaning stock diesel settings , timing and nozels will work fairly well .

something i've run across with he cummins guys using a high lift cam plate and a 14mm pump head , they are running  into heat build up issues in the injection pump ( on diesel )  ...... i'm thinking this would be a ideal situation for veg oil , since the ip wouldn't be removing heat from the oil , but maybe even adding heat .

[smutts]

$8.96 per US gallon. Mostly tax. This is why diesel tax fraud is a national sport over here.

With regards to SVO being too thick without heating, has anybody tried thinning it down with paraffin? Kerosene for those over the pond. :wink: . On its own it has terrible lubricity, but with an octane of zero, that should be a good cetane value. Say 20% paraffin to 80% veg oil. Any good disaster stories?  
THIS IS ONLY A QUESTION! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!

[burnt_servo]

it's not so much that it's too thick , but more a matter of it needing to be at a higher temp as it's being injected into the engine to completely burn .....
otherwise you end up with the fuel your trying to burn running to the edges of the cylinder as it's burning , which then does damage to the rings and / or burns what engine oil is on the cylinder wall / in the top ring land

[vegfuel]

I hear 180*F or 82*C at least. Is there anyone on here with a kit from Greasecar.com? What the verdict on these?

[madmedix]

I've been lurking on the veg sites for awhile...the common denominator with veg conversion is HEAT. Hose-in-hose fuel systems (sheathed in insulation), in-tank heater, insulated tank, heated filter, heated lines to the IP and heated injector lines. It all adds up to big dough if you're not careful...but diesel isn't getting any cheaper either.
 The jury's out on Merc injectors (both sides swear success) but I've noticed the Merc folks seem to have less posts on driveability problems in the cooler temps.

Andy

[burnt_servo]

pricey .... yes .... and that is why i haven't done a proper install on my jetta sooner .

so far i have over 500.00 in just parts alone ( i'm expecting another 200.00 to 300.00 in other costs ) , and i'm building everything from scratch and using steel rather than aluminum for my tanks .

aluminum would add another 250-300.00 to the total cost .

right now at the current diesel prices , payback will be around 8 months to a year of regular driving .... sooner if i  do any sort of travelling for school or work .

[dogday]

$8.96 per US gallon. Mostly tax. This is why diesel tax fraud is a national sport over here.

         

Amen to that.

Cool another local - I'm down on the coast south of Exeter...

Anyways short of a regular supply of red diesel (Not that I would advocate that of course  :wink: ) can I just add veg oil ( & any particualer veg oil?) from the store to my tank - say a approx 25% mix when I fill up - even that would save me approx £15 - £20 a tank... ($30 - $40)...

I have a 150k mile N/a mk3 glof ( and an AAZ in the garage for a rebuild  :wink: )

DD

[madmedix]

I came across a site based in the UK awhile ago that advocated just that: cutting off the shelf veg oil with diesel. I think the suggestion was no more than 30% in the summer, 10 in the winter. Try a google search under vegetable oil + diesel + mix (or some such). Sorry, I didn't bookmark it.

Cheers,
Andy

[mantajohan]

$8.96 per US gallon. Mostly tax. This is why diesel tax fraud is a national sport over here.

         

Amen to that.

Cool another local - I'm down on the coast south of Exeter...

Anyways short of a regular supply of red diesel (Not that I would advocate that of course  :wink: ) can I just add veg oil ( & any particualer veg oil?) from the store to my tank - say a approx 25% mix when I fill up - even that would save me approx £15 - £20 a tank... ($30 - $40)...

I have a 150k mile N/a mk3 glof ( and an AAZ in the garage for a rebuild  :wink: )

DD

canola oil or sunflower oil are among the best I think, soy oil is pretty good too from what ive heard

when it gets freezing only over the night and is close too or above freezing -3celsius when i start the car i have been blending 36-38% canola oil without any problems

in the summer I have been blending about 70% unused veggie oil

many people are running 50/50 without any problems(in the summer)

the limit to a good running engine is at about 85% veggie oil for vw, nissan kingcab and other swirl chambers (you can use 100% if you only heat the oil)

most mercedes can run on 100% veggie oil in the summer without any problem to start or run

in the winter I never blend, it gets down to -15celsius (5 Fahrenheit) sometimes more

doesn't work to blend at those temps, the vegoil blends are cloudy and plugs the fuel filter


in the great IDI engines with mechanical fuel pumps there is no need to blend only 25% the engines can handle a lot more without damage

however if the engine is bad already has bad compression or is worn out
vegoil use will make the engine give up a bit faster


TDI and other direct injection engines

some can handle as much as 25% vegoil some can't even handle that

and finally IDI with electrical injection pumps or lucas pumps

sometimes you look at vegoil and they are broken just like DI engines :roll:

[mantajohan]

.

With regards to SVO being too thick without heating, has anybody tried thinning it down with paraffin? Kerosene for those over the pond. :wink: . On its own it has terrible lubricity, but with an octane of zero, that should be a good cetane value. Say 20% paraffin to 80% veg oil. Any good disaster stories?  
THIS IS ONLY A QUESTION! DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!

--------------(boilingpoint) (viskositet 40c) (densitet) (flampunkt)  

diesel ulsd _ 180-300C __ 1,9 cSt _____ 815kg/m3 _ >60C

diesel real__ 180-300C __ 4,2cSt ______ 845kg/m3 _ >60C

kerosene __ 150-300C __ 1,4cSt ______ 806kg/m3 _ >43C

this is my own research in my own country, many of us think that blending with ULSD is makes the engine run a bit better but it is is more expensive(many of us use the thick diesel oil)

the blend gets a bit thinner but the limit is still at about 85-86% vegoil on a swirlchamber engine

some tests say that blending 15% vegoil in parrafin gives back more lubricity than regular diesel has(can't confirm this)


Any good disaster stories?

well one time i spilled some vegoil on the ground lazy as I am i did't clean it up and "almost" slipped on it and sat on my behind :oops:

and another friend of mine tried to use 100% vegoil, the engine did´t start, we had to empty the fuel tank a bit and put in some diesel and empty out the fuel filter and put in diesel in it
after that it stated after a while...