Author Topic: Is It Worth The Money?  (Read 5000 times)

April 24, 2008, 05:14:47 pm

BioDieselVW

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Is It Worth The Money?
« on: April 24, 2008, 05:14:47 pm »
So I have a 1.6TD in my Rabbit Pickup. Its an Eco Diesel so it has a N/A pump and a KKK14 Turbo. I have a 2.5 PP Downpipe and 3in exhaust, Its intercooled and I have installed an EGT gauge. My max fuel screw is turned up a bit, but I want more power. My pump is new but its an N/A pump. Is it worth having Giles build me a Super pump $ 950.00. For all of you who have them was it worth the money and will I see such a huge difference in power? Would you who have them do it again or should I put a stock TD pump on?  Feedback would be great. Thanks Paul
81 Caddy 1.6 TD
Callaway Intercooler
4in Exhaust Stack
Super Pump !

Reply #1April 24, 2008, 05:22:35 pm

burn_your_money

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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 05:22:35 pm »
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but a ECO pump has a smaller plunger then the NA pump right?
Tyler

Reply #2April 24, 2008, 05:27:39 pm

BioDieselVW

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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 05:27:39 pm »
What makes the smaller plunger more desirable?
81 Caddy 1.6 TD
Callaway Intercooler
4in Exhaust Stack
Super Pump !

Reply #3April 24, 2008, 05:35:26 pm

blkboostedtruck

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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 05:35:26 pm »
the Eco pump is just like a pump for a old 1.5 early 1.6's has a 8mm head on it! no performance in it at all!
yes it will be night and day differnce if you have giles build you a pump!
worth it! and priceless!
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Reply #4April 24, 2008, 07:02:50 pm

BejamminR

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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 07:02:50 pm »
I'm not going to tell you "yes" or "no", because I'm obviously biased. That being said, I'm probably as qualified as anyone to make a judgement based on simple comparison between "test as received"/stock state and "post-surgery" state for these pumps.

The real answer to your question depends on what you want. If you want lots of power, smooth operation, durability/longevity, improved mileage and no smoke, as inexpensively as it can be done... getting Giles to do a performance pump is the answer. If you aren't concerned with smoothness, mileage isn't an issue, and smoke doesn't bother you, then just upping the fuelling will do the job for basically free. It won't be anywhere remotely close to manufacturer specs, your mileage will go down, and you'll be blowing smoke... but it's definitely cheaper.

In all honesty, a question like that is kind of loaded, because it's all subjective - I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority (like 90% and up) of those who are presently rocking a Giles pump will emphatically agree that it was worth the dough. Then again there are guys who have done some of their own mods and swear up and down that they'd never pay that much to have a pump done. A Cadillac and a Kia both get you from Point A to Point B, but there isn't much question as to which is cooler; is it worth the money? Depends totally on where you stand, and what value you place on each characteristic that makes the thing up.

In this case, make sure that you are comparing:
- Improved mileage (We know of people getting 10 and 20% improvements over their "before" setup, but as always, your mileage may vary)
- Better power (25-50% increase in horsepower at the wheels, with nothing but the pump. Good luck achieving that reliably for under a grand any other way)
- Smoother-Than-Stock Operation (Again, not too many mods offer that)
- Durability / Longevity (Giles knows what he's doing, and he tests to make sure. He's has been doing this for longer than I've been alive. Oh, he'll hate me for saying that. :wink: )
- No [Or NextToNo, Depending on your setup] Smoke.  (Smoke = Unburned Fuel = Wasted Power and Wasted Fuel. If the environmental considerations are notable in your opinion, that's another point against it. A properly-tuned diesel engine shouldn't smoke, and when Giles does a pump for you and you have properly calibrated and serviced injectors, your machine won't.)

As far as the power gain - yes, you WILL see such a huge difference. I've driven a couple of vehicles before and after pump improvement - you'll notice (and giggle) about the difference. Off the top of my head, I can think of fuelling increases on the order of 100% and at-the-wheels power increases of as much as 44% with no other mods. Will that be the case in your application? Ask Giles, explain what your system is like now, and he'll be able to give you a forecast of what you can actually expect.

Like I said, I won't try to tell you it IS or ISN'T worth doing, because it'd be an obvious conflict of interest. But make sure you're considering all of the relevant data points, otherwise you'll be doing nothing but going on someone's opinion, which may or may not get you to the conclusion you're actually looking for.  :)

Good luck deciding, and let me know if you need any more info from me or Giles.

Reply #5April 24, 2008, 07:14:07 pm

spencebm

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 07:14:07 pm »
send him the pump, turn it up! go real fast!  need additional fuel upon boost!
Ben Spencer

Reply #6April 24, 2008, 07:34:17 pm

subsonic

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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 07:34:17 pm »
BejamminR,
As to longevity, do you or Giles know what the most amount of miles put on with one of his pumps are?  Any come back yet that are just plain worn out from daily use?
2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition, 6-spd. 16V 2.0CR


1985 VW Golf 5-spd, 4-door, 1.6NA  Bought from orig. owner in Savannah with 42,000 miles.
"Making the jump NA to TD" slow but sure.

1980 VW Rabbit LS 5-spd, 4-door 1.6NA almost 450,000miles  RIP

Reply #7April 25, 2008, 05:17:06 am

BioDieselVW

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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 05:17:06 am »
If I send a pump to Giles it will be a true TD Pump. Or else I will put a stock TD pump in place of the stock N/A ECO pump. Oh yeah Its intercooled as stated above!
81 Caddy 1.6 TD
Callaway Intercooler
4in Exhaust Stack
Super Pump !

Reply #8April 25, 2008, 08:38:59 am

saurkraut

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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 08:38:59 am »
The thing that sox is, if you find a used TD pump, it will undoudtedly need a rebuild.  Going rate at A Bosch certified shop is $750.

Contact Giles and see what he charges to put an LDA top on it and a 9mm head.

Compaire that to buying a used TD pump, plus the $750 rebuild.
'79 1.6TD RABBIT
'84 1.5TD RABBIT
'83 Diesel Westy
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo Quatro Wagon
92 Audi 100
'93 Eurovan
'82 Porsche 930

Reply #9April 26, 2008, 12:24:54 am

fatmobile

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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2008, 12:24:54 am »
I think the small plunger was too keep smoke down so in the eco diesel it didn't ruin the cat.

 ...sooo I go for one with a larger plunger.

 The LDA doesn't make the pump provide more fuel, it's for keeping smoke down when off boost.
 Even with an NA pump, you can turn the max fuel screw up far enough that when you let off the accelerator the RPMs will hang from the leftover unburnt fuel.
 Keep your foot out of it off boost and you won't need and LDA.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door, with M-TDI 12mm pump, south bend clutch, VNT-15 turbo, 02A trany
MK4s: 2000 TDI jetta, 2003 TDI wagon, 2000 golf 2.0 gasser.
'84 Rabbit with 1.7TD KY block pistons bored to 80mm, VNT-15
'84 GTI with stock 1.6TD starion intercooler.

Reply #10April 26, 2008, 06:17:34 am

Ziptar

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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2008, 06:17:34 am »
Ok, I think I can help you on this one... I am / was in the same boat. I have a 91 Eco that is LDA-Less, and have Giles doing up a Super Pump and Injectors.

The Eco Pump does have an 8mm plunger and head. The reason for this might have been MPG but most likely to keep smoke down on the EcoDiesels. Smaller plunger and head means less fuel and no LDA means the Turbo acts as nothing more than an air pump, in fact technically on the Eco the turbo thins out the air fuel mix under boost.

I had originally planned on sending Giles a 9MM TD Core and my 8MM Eco Pump to have him put the LDA on the Eco thinking it would make for better MPG. When I first called Giles and spoke to him and told him what I wanted to do his first question was "Can I ask Why??". When I told him I thought it would get me better MPG he explained that it wouldn't with allot of detail. Basically power and MPG is not about plunger and head size unless you are after big HP and Big Boost. It's more about the tuning of the Pump and injectors.

So he started me over again and asked what I was after. I said "A little more umph, more Go Pedal for hills and the interstate but, not at the cost of MPG if possible.

We decided I should send the 9MM TD Core by itself along with a set of injectors, and he would rebuild and tweak those to meet my needs easily along with the intercooler I am adding. He guestimated ~90HP even with the stock Eco K14 Turbo.

I don't have everything back yet but, I can tell you that for the VERY SMALL premium you might pay to have Giles redo your stuff over a run of the mill diesel shop it is well worth it.

I called my local Bosch shop before I left Florida about rebuilding injectors, they never even called me back.

Meanwhile I have had a couple long conversations with Giles about the specifics of my car, my plans for it, and what I hoped to get out of my Super Pump. Combine that with his knowledge and ability to coax the most of a VE Pump and all the reasons BejamminR mentioned and it is a bargain.

So Yeah, I'd say it's worth the money and I don't even have mine yet.  :lol:

Reply #11May 08, 2008, 01:40:24 am

Dr. Diesel

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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 01:40:24 am »
Quote from: "subsonic"
BejamminR,
As to longevity, do you or Giles know what the most amount of miles put on with one of his pumps are?  Any come back yet that are just plain worn out from daily use?


I have Giles Superpumps serial numbers 0001 and 0002.
0001 is back in the shop for updates (there have been several!) and will be fitted to my autocross rabbit this season.

0002 is of unknown mileage, but has seen duty on 7 different engines in 4 different cars. It's beaten a plethora of opponents, on road and autocross, it's fueled a nitrous-breathing, 35psi 1.6L at over 7000 rpm (wasting the most highly modded TDI i've ever seen-- 4th and 5th on the highway!), and served the last two years on a tired-out aaz A2 daily driver that moved me, my household possesions, 4 cars (towstrap) and my entire shop over several trips with a 4x8 trailer.
(check this smoke tale! http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1722&highlight=trailer)
I've recently returned it to Giles for teardown inspection, though I don't believe he's tackled it yet, what with the new shop, apprentice and all. (congrats, Burn_Your_Money!)

To paraphrase, provided you're using a good quality fuel lubrication additive, (Giles sells Stanadyne!) you'll not have any issue with longevity on a Performance Diesel Injection superpump by Giles.
I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
Performance Diesel Injection's Super Pump: gotta have one!

Reply #12May 09, 2008, 09:57:37 am

burn_your_money

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 09:57:37 am »
I just spoke with Giles, I'm actually sitting in the shop right now. He said that of all the super pumps he has made, none have come back due to failure. Some have been returned for upgrades as the customers needs changed (more boost :twisted: etc)

As for longevity, the only one Giles has heard back from is 3 years old with 40,000 miles (65,000 kms). If anyone out there has a super pump with more miles on it, please give us a call at the shop and let us know. We'd love to hear from you.

Personally, I have a NA and I thought it was pretty quick for a NA. It moves my 91 Golf around pretty good with no smoke so I thought the pump was nice and healthy. It only has 200,000 kms on it. I let Giles take it for a spin around the block and he came back with a rather appalled look on his face. He told me I need a super pump. So we are building one :D I'll let you all know how much more I love my car in a few weeks
Tyler

Reply #13May 09, 2008, 03:56:01 pm

Dr. Diesel

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 03:56:01 pm »
Gtech, before and after!
I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
Performance Diesel Injection's Super Pump: gotta have one!

Reply #14May 10, 2008, 04:07:27 am

gigaz2

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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2008, 04:07:27 am »
I would do both, swap for the TD and start saving for sending the TD for Giles :D
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