Author Topic: @#%@$#%@! (Subtitled: "Trials of a Fox Conversion" (Read 5120 times)

Turbinepowered · « **on:** April 15, 2008, 08:56:27 pm »

Oh I had one of the scares of my young life not two days ago. I have the head off my 1.5 D so I can paint the block, install the studs and put a new headgasket on it, among other things.

I've been treating that head with the kid gloves, as it's the only one I have and if I warp it I'm screwed until I could find a place I'd trust to straighten it properly.

I had some time to go ahead and clean the face of the head on Saturday, so I merrily spent half an hour rubbing it down with progressively finer sandpaper, starting at 550 and going up to 1500. She shines like a mirror, now.

I pulled out the straight edge, dug out the feeler gauges, picked the .1mm gauge... and watched in abject horror as it smoothly slid right between the head and the straightedge. Aghast, I checked several other spots, in both directions, and by the time I was done I practically felt like crying. No resistance at any point to the motion, just smoothly sliding between the two bits of metal.

I put it away for the day, blowing off another several hours I could have used to advance the cause. With the head that far out of whack, what would be the point?

So I went back this morning, before work, and on a hunch I picked up the still-extended feeler gauge I'd used, looked it over... and damned if I didn't start to laugh fit to wake the neighbors. I had the wrong stupid feeler extended. I'd misread the age-tarnished face of the brass feeler, and used one that was way too thin to be used for such a purpose.

I hunted and cleaned and found the proper feeler, rechecked, and my head is gorgeous now.

I just feel a bit like a traitor, I'm painting a VW block Chrysler blue.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2008, 09:39:03 pm »

yeah I hate warped heads :evil:

myke_w · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2008, 03:29:44 am »

That's really good news.. I'm glad it worked out

I remember being totally freaked when I ordered a PD head (used, and not freaking cheap either) from a junkyard. When it got here it was evident that someone dropped it in it's end, and mushroomed it on the gasket surface.. I almost fainted...

The machine shop I deal with (who are absolutely amazing btw) told me to bring it up. When they saw it, they laughed and said, hell - we can hand file that flat.. :shock:

But no kidding , they did so carefully off course, and it was good as new and saved my ass - LOL close call

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2008, 03:00:07 pm »

Okay, another freakout moment here. Is it normal to hit a point when you're turning the engine over by hand that it's very difficult to move past even with the injectors out? I'm thinking it's the effort of compressing two valve springs?

Seems to coincide with TDC-ish each rotation... I cheated when putting the belt on, and verified TDC on #1 by flipping the engine over and pulling the oil pan. Since the flywheel that's on it doesn't seem to have timing marks (!?!), I figured this was the safest way to verify my TDC.

4-notch 1.5 headgasket, exact same as what came off the engine, head was carefully cleaned and not warped, studs properly torqued, and now I get this stiffness each turn...

zukgod1 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2008, 03:10:36 pm »

It will be a bit tighter on the top of the stroke but it shouldn't be like your compressing valves.

Valve cover off?

I don't think you will be able to turn it over at all if there is a piston hitting a valve. Solid lifter engine and all..

burn_your_money · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2008, 03:15:12 pm »

I don't think that the extra bit of resistance would be noticeable with the injectors out.

Is there a solid line or triangle on the flywheel anywhere?

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2008, 03:45:35 pm »

Quote from: "burn_your_money"

I don't think that the extra bit of resistance would be noticeable with the injectors out.

Is there a solid line or triangle on the flywheel anywhere?

I couldn't find a solid line anywhere on the flywheel (old Rabbit flywheel) and when I went to look for a diamond/triangle, the edge I'd seen in pictures was too corroded to really get a good look.

It "hangs" for a moment, a little extra force (sometimes more than others) and it is past it. It's not a steady application of force all the way through the rotation.

Valve cover's off, and I checked the cam timing against the crankshaft, they're in the right relationship. Lobes up on #1 with #1 @TDC, and I can lock the camshaft at that point too.

myke_w · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2008, 08:34:19 pm »

a couple thoughts -

if it were hitting a valve, it would stop cold

if you are concerned about the tight spot, pull injectors or glow plugs..
(some spots in the rotation are tighter than others of course)

BTW, what is the history of the motor? did it have valve impact? do you suspect a bent rod or something? why would anything be amiss?

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2008, 03:59:48 am »

Injectors and plugs are already out. I recently pulled the head, it's been cleaned and checked for warp, no signs of piston/valve contact anywhere.

Not sure what the engine's history is, I bought it running from a guy that was doing a TDI-M swap into his Rabbit. 92k on the odometer, and looking at the wear I'd say that's probably accurate.

I just was a bit concerned, didn't expect there to be this "tight" spot. Only experiences I've had with such things are an aircooled and a 7:1 compression Ford engine, both of which turned over quite smoothly all the way through the rotation.

So, forge on ahead, we're good?

Pump is a 107A - "yellow dot?"

riddleyo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2008, 06:39:02 am »

When timing my 1.6D, I found:

-near TDC, the engine rotates very smoothly and VERY loose
-when not near TDC, while the injectors and glow plugs are in, there is some resistance, but nothing a wrench on the crank can't turn
-when the pistons touch a valve, the engine stops dead in its tracks and it requires a lot of force to turn (don't do this)

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2008, 10:39:50 am »

Quote from: "riddleyo"

When timing my 1.6D, I found:

-near TDC, the engine rotates very smoothly and VERY loose
-when not near TDC, while the injectors and glow plugs are in, there is some resistance, but nothing a wrench on the crank can't turn
-when the pistons touch a valve, the engine stops dead in its tracks and it requires a lot of force to turn (don't do this)

Well, after checking and rechecking (everything short of pulling the head back off, in fact), I have determined that there is no way on earth that the pistons are contacting valves. Having established this to my satisfaction, I will now proceed. Put the oil pan back on, time the pump (Its part number ends in 107-A... "yellow dot" pump?), then put oil and a fresh filter on it and run the oil pump to prime the system.

Having a bit of trouble disassembling the bottle jack to build the injection tester; got a friend with a press and a welder, we're going to press a plug into the top of the ram cylinder, weld the two, then drill and tap for the fitting, but the top cover nut is rather stalwartly resisting our best efforts to get it off of there. Anyone know if it's left handed or right handed thread pitch on an "AC Delco" $12 special 4-ton bottle jack?

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2008, 09:30:53 pm »

You know how I said last time there was no way on earth? There was a way, and it was on earth.

I jumped a tooth putting the belt on.

This is now corrected.

Proceed, citizens.

fatmobile · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2008, 10:25:06 pm »

Quote

Having a bit of trouble disassembling the bottle jack to build the injection tester... the top cover nut is rather stalwartly resisting our best efforts to get it off of there.

The threads are on the inside, if you heat or smack on the outside of the case where the threads are it can help free things up.
Maybe they used some locktite and some heat could set it free.

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2008, 10:50:20 pm »

Quote from: "fatmobile"

Quote
Having a bit of trouble disassembling the bottle jack to build the injection tester... the top cover nut is rather stalwartly resisting our best efforts to get it off of there.

The threads are on the inside, if you heat or smack on the outside of the case where the threads are it can help free things up.
Maybe they used some locktite and some heat could set it free.

I finally got it off. Used a pipe clamp on the base and a 3/4" drive socket on the top. Put one hand on the breaker bar, the other on the pipe, and squeezed.

It broke free. Just tight from the factory.

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2008, 07:52:29 pm »

Ultra stupid question. New crank bolt, new style, where shall I get it? I've checked autohausAZ, I've checked GAP, and I've checked GPR; nobody even has a listing for crankshaft bolts.