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1.6 into a type 3 squareback by turbosuzi on 05 Apr, 2008 09:33
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I was thinking putting the extra 1.6 I have into a type 3 squareback, but I dont have a type3 to check fitting clearances. I was wondering if anyone has seen or done this conversion? I really like the type3 but I dont want to go out and but one in hopes of it fitting.
Any sources on the adapterplate? -
#1 by blkboostedtruck on 05 Apr, 2008 09:54
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I too been pondering the idea for my 66?
Duane -
#2 by RabbitJockey on 05 Apr, 2008 14:05
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check with people on how the 8v motors fit, should be about the same... i'd like to put one in a ghia or something
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#3 by Turbinepowered on 05 Apr, 2008 15:48
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It'll fit, but... you'd need to cant it over almost on its side for the decklid to close. Vanagon oil pan, pump, and IP at the very least.
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#4 by the caveman on 05 Apr, 2008 16:08
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At least with a squareback, if you don't care about the hump, you may not even have to tilt it as much as a vanagon. Depends on how much you care about estestics. find a fastback or notch and you'll be all set.
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#5 by shegel on 05 Apr, 2008 20:57
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Quote from: "Trev0rbr"
check with people on how the 8v motors fit, should be about the same... i'd like to put one in a ghia or something
did somone say ghia diesel?
im using a dasher 1.6 -
#6 by RabbitJockey on 06 Apr, 2008 11:45
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someone should post pictures
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#7 by turbosuzi on 06 Apr, 2008 17:28
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do I need an adapter plate?How do you "cant" the motor in, is that part of the adapter?
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#8 by blkboostedtruck on 06 Apr, 2008 17:56
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i think kennedy enginering makes adapter plates?
Duane -
#9 by Turbinepowered on 06 Apr, 2008 23:12
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Quote from: "turbosuzi"
do I need an adapter plate?How do you "cant" the motor in, is that part of the adapter?
"Cant" is just another word for "tilt." Usually it's more an architectural thing than a common usage thing. Just me showing off my vocabulary, don't worry about it.
Yes, you'll need an adapter plate no matter how you mount it. The Aircooled flat-four bolt pattern and the watercooled inline four pattern are not compatible.
I believe that Kennedy has a Vanagon-angle adapter plate that puts the engine in the appropriate position. You'll then need the oil pan and pump from a Vanagon, and probably the injection pump if you're going TD, so it will all fit under the decklid.
You'll also need to fabricate some way to provide support for the engine, like the Vanagon did with the side bars. Most T3s relied on the front transmission mount and the rear engine support bar to hold the engine/transaxle assembly in the car. Pre-'69 cars had swingaxles, and had horns on the subframe to hold the transmission in the car, but it would probably still be best to support such a heavy engine independently of these simple supports. It does weigh a bit more than the aircooled, 60-80# more if I remember correctly.
Speaking as an owner of a "humped" Squareback... it's more than just aesthetics. Building a box over the engine bay very effectively slaughters your ability to load the back of the car. Not only can you no longer simply slide things in and lose a little height, the space to either side of your box is essentially useless, and removing the decklid becomes an exercise in restraint as you try to lift it and work it around whatever it is that sits above the lid level and required the box to be built in the first place. There were times I drove around without the engine lid at all, simply so I didn't have to deal with that hassle. Exhaust smell finally drove me to put the lid back on, but I was willing to deal with the noise and some exhaust gasses to avoid that nastiness.
When I was contemplating my own conversion of to diesel in a Square, I decided that the best option for dealing with such issues and not losing my mind on a regular basis would involve getting a rusting-out donor Square, cutting the rear cargo floor out, and raising the entire area around the engine by the height of box needed. No more box, but a whole host of new problems, fabrication, and opportunity. -
#10 by turbosuzi on 07 Apr, 2008 08:34
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Turbinepowered,
do you have any pics of your conversion? How does it perform? Does the gearing seem to be about right for a diesel and how is your fuel mileage? -
#11 by Turbinepowered on 07 Apr, 2008 08:39
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Quote from: "turbosuzi"
Turbinepowered,
do you have any pics of your conversion? How does it perform? Does the gearing seem to be about right for a diesel and how is your fuel mileage?
I never actually finished it, unfortunately, and sold the Square to a guy who immediately defiled it.
Had I known... he chopped, dropped and rag-topped it. Dual carburetors and a nasty purple paintjob.
Gearing would be in the right range for a 1.5, a bit low for a 1.6, and definitely low for a 1.9 or TDI. Sane highway cruising speeds in an old T3 had that engine spinning @ ~3k, which the smaller diesels don't seem to have much problem with.
4spd T3 gear ratios:
Gear Ratio Years
1st 3.8:1 Through OCT '72
1st 3.78:1 From NOV '72
2nd 2.06:1 All Models
3rd 1.26:1 From '68 through APR '70
3rd 1.26:1 Late '70 through '73
4th .89:1 From '68 through APR '70
4th .88:1 Late '70 through '73
REV 3.61:1 '68 through '72
REV 3.8:1 '73 models through OCT '72
REV 3.79:1 '73 models from NOV '72
FD 4.125:1 All Models -
#12 by tdimig on 06 Jun, 2008 08:01
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I am in process of building a 1972 Ghia convertible with a KEP adaptor and a 1.9 TDI. I had originally started with a Buick 3.8 but its heavy and too large for the bay (fits but is BUTT UGLY) also with the rise in gas prices I decided to do a diesel instead. Have a built IRS 3.44 with a .82 4th should be ok for a daily driver.
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#13 by 914turboford on 06 Jun, 2008 10:25
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Quote from: "turbosuzi"
do I need an adapter plate?How do you "cant" the motor in, is that part of the adapter?
If you can get ahold of a Vanagon diesel trans you can use that, but you'd probably have to adapt the axles some how and maybe different engine mounts. Barrin that if you can get your hands on a diesel vanagon BH only, you can bolt that to a mid to late 70's Bus trans. I hate engine adapters, but that's just me.
Brian