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Cylinder Head bolt specs?
by
ericgoum
on 04 Mar, 2008 10:09
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I am doing a rebuild of my engine and was wondering what the specs were on the head bolts as far as their length/stretch limits. I wanted to know in case I needed to order new ones or if the ones I have will still be fine. Thanks in advance.
Eric
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#1
by
subsonic
on 04 Mar, 2008 11:06
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New ones are cheap, go on and buy some new one for the piece of mind.
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#2
by
ericgoum
on 04 Mar, 2008 13:08
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Thanks a bunch, I kinda figured that. Just thought I'd ask first.
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#3
by
CoolAirVw
on 04 Mar, 2008 17:43
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With my elring head gasket came installation instructions.
Basically it says...
40 nM
60 nm
90 degree's
90 degree's
warm up engine then....
90 degrees
Drive 1000 kilometers
90 degrees
Good greif! Anyone done this?? After the first two 90 degree turns I'm pulling on that breaker bar with all I got!
I'm sure I can turn the 90 degrees after warming it up. I'm also sure I can turn it the next 90 degrees. My concern is that I might Yank the threads out of the engine or break the bolts!
Signed..... Scared in KC.
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#4
by
janb
on 05 Mar, 2008 00:15
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I've never had any trouble with the extra 90 Deg turns with my 1/2 drive breaker bar or Torque wrench (and I'm no moose... 160#...) . I just get an 'empty' feeling when you feel them 'yield', Guess I've broken too many bolts in farm / heavy equip applications. But never on the VW head. Do be sure to clean out the threads, I've known folks to leave water in the holes and "hydraulically" break their block. That ain't pretty.
I get the bolts for $0.99, but am considering buying some Heat treated Socket Head Screws for an 'econo-raceware' set-up... Std Tooling bolts (~$3.00) are speced at 188,000psi and raceware are 190,000 IIRC
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#5
by
fastvicar
on 05 Mar, 2008 06:08
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I cleaned the threads by taking a used bolt and grinding some slots into the threads with a cutting disc. Worked a treat!
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#6
by
bigbillyboy
on 19 Mar, 2008 15:37
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So, I finally got the engine warmed up, and then let her cool down enough to re-torque the head bolts. Holy crap, what an experience that was! It took a ton of force to get them to move followed by a loud "POP" and then they rotated 90 degrees. The first time it happened, I almost "POOPED" my pants.
I'm hoping that is normal. I'm not looking forward to the torque at 1,000 miles.
I was also shocked to see how much metal specs were in the oil from the first oil change. I'll think I 'll change it again after a couple of days of driving it around, just to be sure.
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#7
by
Baselyne
on 23 Mar, 2008 03:02
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sounds stressful, cant wait to go thru all of this with my Rcewear head studs an a 1.5L that im told is threaded very close to edge of the block
cant wait to be the first to pop the threads right out
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#8
by
jimfoo
on 23 Mar, 2008 07:07
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So Racewear wants you to re-torque them? Just wondering as ARP doesn't
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#9
by
Turbinepowered
on 23 Mar, 2008 08:46
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sounds stressful, cant wait to go thru all of this with my Rcewear head studs an a 1.5L that im told is threaded very close to edge of the block
cant wait to be the first to pop the threads right out
It's a race then, I just bought some ARP 11mm studs for my own 1.5D.
First one to break the block wins and loses at the same time!
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#10
by
Dieselumbrado
on 23 Mar, 2008 09:09
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When I did HG last year, the LOUD POP was when I torqued the first bolt after warm up.
I stopped right there, I put back the valve cover, and I'm running the car since, just waiting when is going to leak, to pull it out and start all over again, this time I'll try to lubricate better not only the treads, but also the underside of the bolts head.
I read somewhere that the friction between the underside of the bolt head as it turns against the cylinder head, accounts for about 90% of the force exerted on the wrench.
Unfortunately I didn't know that...
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#11
by
saurkraut
on 24 Mar, 2008 05:54
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sounds stressful, cant wait to go thru all of this with my Rcewear head studs an a 1.5L that im told is threaded very close to edge of the block
cant wait to be the first to pop the threads right out
It's a race then, I just bought some ARP 11mm studs for my own 1.5D. First one to break the block wins and loses at the same time!
I don't think you'll have any problems. The 1.5 original non-streach bolts, and the new 11mm streach bolts for the 1.5 are really short, they don't even use half of the threaded hole in the block.
Go ahead and put one of your old head bolts into a hole in the head and see how little pokes out the other side. THATS why your going to studs.
Take a picture and post it.
I suspect its a nos-hit design flaw.
I wasn't planning on using the studs on my 1.5td project, but I had a bolt that stopped ramping up torque about 3/4 through the torque sequence. Can any one guess what was happening?
Anyway, i pulled the head off, looked at how far the bolts protruded out the bottom of the head and said 'screw it' and bought the studs (raceware, they know exactly what you need when you call).
The hole in the block (A corner one too) that the streach bolt wouldn't hold torque in, took full torque like a champ.
And here they are, in my ity bity 1.5TD:
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#12
by
Turbinepowered
on 07 Apr, 2008 19:51
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Bump.
Saurkraut, what did you torque your studs to? I have the ARPs, and their recommended max torque for aluminum head engines is the same as the original spec torque for headbolts for the 1.5D. Both come in at 65ft-lbs (9.0 mkg), so I'm guessing I ought to just follow the torquing procedure for the bolts with the studs. 5.0 mkg, 7.0 mkg, 9.0 mkg, each in sequence.
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#13
by
saurkraut
on 08 Apr, 2008 06:26
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I think the Raceware studs specify a progressing 3 stage torgueing procedure, with 50 ftlbs as the final step. Thats the best of my reclection. I have a good memory, but it tends to be short and innaccurat. Use the torque pattern specified in Bently and the stages that came with your studs.
If you don't have the stages specified by ARP, contact them and get them. I recall that they had a few retorgeing steps on the final increment.
Maybe someone here has them?
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#14
by
Baselyne
on 09 Apr, 2008 18:17
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Back homes the instructions an if I ever get there I'll be sure to post the torques and tightening procedure