Author Topic: Another M-tdi question <sorrrry> (Read 17618 times)

Tintin · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2008, 12:01:39 pm »

In total of + ou - 3mm lift for both came plate, the AAZ one with 14 have more reserve for extra fueling, but probably too much.

I dont know about the plunger weight effect, the return effect or came plate floating.

And why BOSCH did not do it thus, euhh.. no 14mm because It's home made, but 12mm with lightly softer cam?

I found in the european Renault 1.9L DTI (TDI) electronic pump, there are 11mm factory plunger head with a little softer came plate than ALH one.

PS:in the other hand with IDI AAZ motor, the bigger plunger head that I have put on these engine is 11mm head, also I have already put a 10mm M-pump on these engine and the power feeling is better than with simply a 11mm mod.

Tintin · « **Reply #31 on:** February 14, 2008, 10:07:57 pm »

Older AAZ 3.20mm lift
Later AAZ 2.80mm lift
TDI 3.15mm lift
TDI auto 3.25 lift
1.5/1.6D/TD 2.20mm lift

jimfoo · « **Reply #32 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:30:23 pm »

That should be in the FAQ for those inquiring minds that want to know. interesting that the older AAZ's had more lift than the TDI's.

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2008, 06:25:55 am »

While the lift of the older AAZ camplate was higher than TDI's, the camplate profile still wouldn't be reflective of where it would need to be for a TDI for the best timing considerations.

That would be excellent info for in the FAQ though.

Joe

Tintin · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:31:36 am »

In esitronic, the later AAZ injector installed with 2.80 cam open at lower pressure than older AAZ (3.2), but the cam profile is the same, cam lift is not only for hight rev.

I already tested a nice aggressive DI came plate with only 2.5mm lift in the M-pump, and I do not see a difference for the rev capability of the motor.

cam lift for me it's not an important thing.

Tintin · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:11:25 pm »

IDI motor and DI motor are two different thing.

On diesel engine there have specific moment to inject the diesel, It's a short laps of time, the start of fuel delivery is the timing and there is a limit in time to respect to inject the fuel, if the time of injection is too long, it's not good....... I dont know how to explain better....., now, DI engine work with much more injection pressure than IDI, there are opening inj. pressure, but It's not only this, after the injector are open, the pressure continues to go up much, but the pump need to inject a correct amount of fuel through these very small injector in a short laps of time, that takes an aggressive came plate to carry out this work.

If you put a IDI came plate on DI engine, yes the IDI came plate is capable to open and inject trough the DI injector, but the time to inject the correct amount of fuel is too long, you can reduce this time with a very very large injector with IDI came plate, but the injection atomisation will be too bad, but ok for IDI engine.

The most important thing in diesel, It's not only the amount of fuel, but the time, the time that this pressurised fuel will be injected.

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2008, 12:34:52 pm »

i dont know which camplate i got
but i do know that if you run a 210mm flywheel setup,,the timing marks dont work
you need to "find" tdc and re mark the flywheel
as far as the "correct" camplate,i guess mine works
maybe cause of the race 520 injectors
i wish i knew more of my internal pump specs,but my pump guy said its no big deal for him to duplicate my pump for others....

blkboostedtruck · « **Reply #37 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:03:26 pm »

Quote from: "prothe"

I'm trying to offer a 1.6 M-TDI conversion package. I'll get the pistons in 2 months, but I'm still missing the TDI injectors needed. If that product is successful, you might see some extra pump business from it, too. I might need people like you who have time to explain exactly how things work. I get hundreds of emails every day, and don't have time to spend to give in depth answers.

Proth I still stand at your disposal to be your guinnie pig for your project!
I don't know if you remember but i have not heard from you in a while?
especially since you went out of the country last year!
iv'e built up a respect here that if your conversion works they will like to hear what the results would be from me? that coming from a nuetral position!
check your P.M. i sent you one a while back and you never read it!
let me know if were still on?
thanks Duane

jimfoo · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:15:13 pm »

Ok, instead of using a different control lever with more travel, can I just use a thinner shim under the plunger foot? This is for my AAZ pump with a 10mm head and TDI cam plate. Or can I even use no shim or is it required for support?

jimfoo · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2008, 10:46:07 pm »

Well, I made a thinner shim so that the collar will be completely, or almost be completely (it's hard to tell) covering the hole in the plunger at full throttle. As Tintin had stated, without some kind of a mod, it was still quite open at full throttle. I am probably having the shop in town test it to see if it will work before I put it on the engine. BTW, no I didn't take pics.

jimfoo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 25, 2008, 09:47:46 pm »

It was bottoming out because the plunger was larger than the hole in the AAZ cam plate. I got a TDI cam plate from you and now the plunger fits. I was making the thinner shim as the AAZ plunger has a small slit on the very end. But the TDI plunger has the opening in the same place, but it is open the whole way across, which is what I think Tintin was talking about when he says you need a TDI control lever for more movement of the collar to close the bleed port. I was thinking a thinner shim will move the plunger closer to the collar, closing the port more.

Tintin · « **Reply #41 on:** February 29, 2008, 01:05:45 pm »

In fact, if you push the control collar further with IDI lever, yes that will work, but It's impossible to back to the idle positon, because not enough movement from the lever.

An example, I do not give the real number, but an example:

From idle to full throttle on TDI, the collar on the plunger need to move 20mm, and with IDI lever the collar move only 5mm from idle to full throttle, probably 8mm with the fuel screw at the max and backing the idle at the max, You can understand that with 5mm that equal 1/4 throttle on the TDI, yes the engine run well, idle is fine, but no power.

This weird thing with IDI and TDI lever, is the relation with the came plate slope and the degre of the pump rotation.

Now... the lever its the easy part, the timing curve adjustemnt is the real challenge.

jimfoo · « **Reply #42 on:** February 29, 2008, 01:35:34 pm »

Do you have any pictures showing the difference between a TDI and IDI lever?

jimfoo · « **Reply #43 on:** February 29, 2008, 02:29:15 pm »

Ok, now I'm really lost. My collar could never move 20 mm as it would almost be completely off the part it rides on. Could it be that I have a 10 mm IDI head or is a 10 mm head a 10 mm head?

Tintin · « **Reply #44 on:** February 29, 2008, 06:02:30 pm »

Like I said, I give only an example and do not give the real number, thus 20mm is fictif number.

PM for the pic.