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RA & SB engine turbos
by
DonGTI
on 10 Jan, 2008 13:10
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I was browsing autodata and kept getting 80 bhp for 2 particular 1.6L TD engines... the RA and SB. I thought 1.6 td's only made 69 bhp in top factory form and was curious as to what do they have better than 1V and JR engines i'm used to... Pumps are similar enough but when I put those engine codes in ETOS/ETKA it seems that they came out with ballsyer watercooled turbos, considered better than those on the rest of the VAG diesel range, even better than the one on the AAZ...
After some searching around i found :
Part numbers for Garrett
068 145 702 MX
068 145 701 TX
Part numbers for KKK
068 145 702 CX
068 145 702 NX
Does anyone know the Garrett or the KKK model name?
I knew some VW's came out with watercooled turbos but according to ETKA/ETOS the only 2 engine codes to ever come out of the VW factory with such turbos are RA and SB, fitted mainly on big heavy cars like the Passat and Audi 80, but also on a limited number of Golfs...
Tempted to plumb one on the AAZ but again here comes ETKA's main limitation... it displays the VAG part but not the brand's model name (annoying when it comes to diesel pumps and turbos to name a few)
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#1
by
rubadubdub
on 10 Jan, 2008 13:29
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not sure on the exact names for the part numbers posted above, but i know water cooled K14s and T2s exist which were fitted to golf gtds in the uk (SB engine)
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#2
by
DonGTI
on 10 Jan, 2008 13:50
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In Malta, car-wise we get mostly UK stock because like you we have RHD cars (with added airconditioners). So if I find of those 2 turbos running around they will probably be the T2's and K14's you just mentioned. T2's are common enough, being fitted to a lot of Ford models, from Sierra TD to Mondeo TDI but I was having doubts as to wether the T2 came on RA or SB models regarding the fact that I have yet to see one with watercooling! Then again I have only seen Ford items so as yet to hunt down a VAG item. KKK's I have never come across any till now, well, at least prior to getting involved in VW's...
Not sure if I heard well in some other post, but the Americans got theirs in the T3 flavour? over here we have Fiesta/Escort RS Turbo's and 1st generation Cosworths running with that! The word turbo lag can't go away from my mind when put in the 1.6l diesel context lol but i can't really say cos i have never seen one...
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#3
by
rubadubdub
on 10 Jan, 2008 14:21
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I was having doubts as to wether the T2 came on RA or SB models regarding the fact that I have yet to see one with watercooling!
Part number of the watercooled T2 on my gtd:
068145704F - 466534-5
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#4
by
GTD.
on 10 Jan, 2008 15:14
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My Golf GTD (91 SB) has a K14
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#5
by
rabbid79
on 10 Jan, 2008 19:29
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I don't know about the turbo differences, but I believe those engines were intercooled. This could make the difference by itself.
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#6
by
DonGTI
on 10 Jan, 2008 22:27
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Yes, the added HP is from intercooling.
Andrew
If its just from intercooling I am finding it hard to accept that a stock 1.9 aaz only produce 75 bhp when my old JR engine (non intercooled) had 69bhp... I would have thought 300 extra cc's would have made more of a difference compared to power output.
80bhp from 1.6L is 50 bhp per liter (ra/sb)
69bhp from 1.6L is 43.2 bhp per liter (jr)
75bhp from 1.9L is just 39.5 bhp per liter (aaz)
Power from displacement is even less than a JR on an AAZ... I want the AAZ i'll be bolting in to at least match the 1.6 RA/SB's bhp/liter figures. It will definitely be intercooled (found a good sized saab 9000 unit) but while the engine is still on a bench if there's anything i could change/adapt from the 1.6 units (such as the turbo) or identify and remove performance bottlenecks i'll gladdly do it.
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#7
by
bert
on 11 Jan, 2008 00:26
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My Jetta has a SB with a water cooled T2 on it with the intercooler.
The AAZ is detuned for emissions as far as i know,lots of them have EGR and a catalyst,im running a AAZ with a 1.6TD garrett T3 and it flies,
Bert
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#8
by
DonGTI
on 11 Jan, 2008 11:00
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Yes, the 75 hp of the AAZ is from the detuning. The fuel enrichment of the pump tends to be a joke.
Andrew
Detuned? can you say a bit more on that? I browsed around the forum and found the pump tuning guide, so pump wise I think I'm covered... But are there any other mods I can do that will De-Detune the AAZ?
I was wondering how it would do if I ditch the tiny KKK k03 in favour of an RA or SB watercooled T2 or K14... 1.6 GTD drivers do not complain of any lag on these units so shouldn't be a problem for a higher exhaust ourput 1.9.
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#9
by
bert
on 11 Jan, 2008 11:12
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I have to agree with Andrew about the AAZ fuel enrichment being a joke :lol:
Bert
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#10
by
DonGTI
on 11 Jan, 2008 14:47
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I have to agree with Andrew about the AAZ fuel enrichment being a joke :lol:
Bert
I guess that's why in the pump mod section regarding changing the diaphragm there's the "1.6 td=good, 1.9=bad, replace 1.9 item with 1.6" lol I guess that sorts it out :wink: and with the pump mods, gets the fueling part of the equation right...
But i would like to move back to the turbos for a second. I have driven my friend's 1.9 AAZ jetta overland on a trip from Italy to Germany and on motorways there was no stopping it... apart from being stopped by 2 cops who stopped us to ask what we were doing so far away from Malta, but jokes aside in urban driving I was horified with its turbo lag.
T3's a bit too big for me living on an island with no major highways, any ideas if a 1.6 td turbo (T2 or K14) would bump up performance a bit more on the 1.9?
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#11
by
DonGTI
on 12 Jan, 2008 10:55
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Has anyone of you put K14 or T2 turbos on the AAZ?
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#12
by
jimfoo
on 12 Jan, 2008 13:32
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A lot of AAZs came with k-14, mine did. Spools fast and I think it made about 20 lbs boost.
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#13
by
DonGTI
on 12 Jan, 2008 23:22
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I haven't seen any with K14's from any of the local engine importers, looks like they were reserved for the US/Canadian market... Was yours with an internal or external wastegate?
Thanks Jim
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#14
by
jimfoo
on 13 Jan, 2008 07:19
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Internal.
Not mine, but this about what mine looks like.