Author Topic: Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's  (Read 19028 times)

December 24, 2007, 09:42:54 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« on: December 24, 2007, 09:42:54 pm »
Guys,

What do you think of this product? The rep says it may add an RPM input to the control scenario.  Your max boost could then be set a bit lower in the lower RPM ranges.  It was designed for waste gate control...but perhaps it can be used on VNT. I do not have personal experiance with VNT's, so I do not know.  I understand that they are controlled by vacuum, not pressure. Is it an on off scanario..or is it more of a proportional control?

http://www.exileturbo.com/products/item_details.asp?idProduct=4

There is a manual that can be downloaded for reviewing the hook-ups and schematics.

LAB


'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #1December 24, 2007, 09:49:50 pm

jimfoo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2110
    • http://www.66rover.com
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 09:49:50 pm »
I don't think it would be ideal for a VNT as you really should have a throttle position sensor as well.
Jim
1966 Land-Rover 88" with 1.9 1Z which has been transformed to an M-TDI
TFO35 mechanically controlled VNT, IC , and 2.5" exhaust.
Driven daily

Reply #2December 24, 2007, 10:41:17 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2007, 10:41:17 pm »
Quote from: "jimfoo"
I don't think it would be ideal for a VNT as you really should have a throttle position sensor as well.


You are listing a GT1749V (VNT 15?) on a m-TDI in your signature.  How are you controlling it?
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #3December 24, 2007, 10:50:28 pm

jimfoo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2110
    • http://www.66rover.com
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 10:50:28 pm »
Mechanically off of the throttle via some springs, with an actuator to control total boost.
Jim
1966 Land-Rover 88" with 1.9 1Z which has been transformed to an M-TDI
TFO35 mechanically controlled VNT, IC , and 2.5" exhaust.
Driven daily

Reply #4December 24, 2007, 11:50:56 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 11:50:56 pm »
Quote from: "jimfoo"
Mechanically off of the throttle via some springs, with an actuator to control total boost.

 8)

Let me see if I understand this.  You have a standard boost pressure actuator on the turbo.  You also have a cable running from the actuator to the throttle cable..connected by a spring.  When in low throtle postion, the spring is assisting the actuator..or holding it back? Do you have pics on here somewhere?
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #5December 25, 2007, 12:28:19 am

jimfoo

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2110
    • http://www.66rover.com
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2007, 12:28:19 am »
1 spring to hold the vanes normally open, 1 spring connected to a throttle cable which pulls to close the vanes, a stronger spring than the other one. A VNT(vacuum) actuator which was cut apart and converted to work by boost which also opens the vanes. There are I think 4 of us with slightly different designs of the same concept. http://www.66rover.com/rover%20rebuild/index.html under 051907 I have pics of how it operates. The cable operated cam was off a Subaru carb I had sitting around. I later added a tab on the bottom part of it so that instead of just counteracting the spring(which hooks to the cable) it forces the shaft up, opening the vanes. http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1306&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=fspgtd+vnt+actuator&start=15
is the thread telling you how to modify the actuator. Libbybapa used small screws to hold it together. I found that a 2 1/2" header flange was a perfect fit and used that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIKVn16Sh5k is Tintin's solution to the vanes. There was another recent post with someone elses design as well.
Jim
1966 Land-Rover 88" with 1.9 1Z which has been transformed to an M-TDI
TFO35 mechanically controlled VNT, IC , and 2.5" exhaust.
Driven daily

Reply #6December 25, 2007, 09:33:44 am

Tintin

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1279
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2007, 09:33:44 am »
It's expensive, but It's a good alternative, it should be know how the controller will behave with a VNT turbo.

For sure, that take TPS and MAP sensor, I think MK4 TDI N75, RPM is useless, but if you have a big VNT, it will be useful to limit the boost at low RPM.

Reply #7December 25, 2007, 01:03:10 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 01:03:10 pm »
Quote from: "jimfoo"
1 spring to hold the vanes normally open, 1 spring connected to a throttle cable which pulls to close the vanes, a stronger spring than the other one. A VNT(vacuum) actuator which was cut apart and converted to work by boost which also opens the vanes. There are I think 4 of us with slightly different designs of the same concept. http://www.66rover.com/rover%20rebuild/index.html under 051907 I have pics of how it operates. The cable operated cam was off a Subaru carb I had sitting around. I later added a tab on the bottom part of it so that instead of just counteracting the spring(which hooks to the cable) it forces the shaft up, opening the vanes. http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1306&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=fspgtd+vnt+actuator&start=15
is the thread telling you how to modify the actuator. Libbybapa used small screws to hold it together. I found that a 2 1/2" header flange was a perfect fit and used that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIKVn16Sh5k is Tintin's solution to the vanes. There was another recent post with someone elses design as well.


thats s lot of info  :shock:  thank you.  I think I need to read through it a couple more times.  It looks like both yours and TinTin's allow for different vane positions, relative to your throttle position, not just open or closed.  Very inventive. I read in the one link that the N75 is a modulating valve.  A true modulating valve would operate like that as well, so I would assume the output from the ECU to this valve must be 0-12V to accomplish this. I am not sure if the solenoids in the Exile controllers are modulating or not.
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #8December 25, 2007, 01:22:16 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2007, 01:22:16 pm »
Quote from: "Tintin"
It's expensive, but It's a good alternative, it should be know how the controller will behave with a VNT turbo.

For sure, that take TPS and MAP sensor, I think MK4 TDI N75, RPM is useless, but if you have a big VNT, it will be useful to limit the boost at low RPM.

yes expensive.  When you add up the parts, probably makes sense..microprocessor -250.00, pressure transducer - 200.00, solenoids, and misc...It makes a guy just look back at the OEM ECU. What would really be nice is just a stripped down code and harness for the OEM ECU's. Inputs - MAP, TPS (calibrated to a cheaper option from a domestic?), Injector Pump Feed, Air temp, N75 ouput.  Just delete all the other inputs/ouputs and operation modes from the code. Anything else you think would be important? This route would cost about the same, very easy to install, good for bench testing, and do more.  Then add a custom software to plug your laptop in and tweak numbers..sota like megasquirt.
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #9February 02, 2008, 07:22:44 am

ventil

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2008, 07:22:44 am »
Hi.
Look at this - this is home made VNT turbo controller (vacum controlled) stored in my m-TDI Golf MKII. It works well, it's easy to do and not expensive.
http://www.forum.vwgolf.pl/viewtopic.php?t=147110
4-M TDI PROJECT login: tdi, hasło: tdi

Reply #10February 02, 2008, 03:55:52 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2008, 03:55:52 pm »
Quote from: "ventil"
Hi.
Look at this - this is home made VNT turbo controller (vacum controlled) stored in my m-TDI Golf MKII. It works well, it's easy to do and not expensive.
http://www.forum.vwgolf.pl/viewtopic.php?t=147110


Hi Ventil,
Thanks for the submission. That is a nice simple set-up you have there.  I can not read much but the schematic makes mostly sense to me.  I see you have two voltage regulators (7805 - 5v and a 7512 - 12v) supplying power to K8004 (DC to PWM) and the MAP sensor mpx4250.  So you have adjusted a ref voltage so that the PWM duty cycle varies with the output voltage from the MAP (0-5V?).  The variable duty cycle is controlling the factory N75 (0V = 0%, 5V = 100%?).  The large resiters are voltage dividers to modify the ouput voltage to the N75.  I am also thinking you might be able to modify the signal by creating a voltage divider in the MAP feed using a TPS and another voltage divider.  If you could explain a bit more or correct any of misinterpretations, that would be great.
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

Reply #11February 02, 2008, 05:09:12 pm

ventil

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2008, 05:09:12 pm »
Quote from: "lbreton"
Quote from: "ventil"
Hi.
Look at this - this is home made VNT turbo controller (vacum controlled) stored in my m-TDI Golf MKII. It works well, it's easy to do and not expensive.
http://www.forum.vwgolf.pl/viewtopic.php?t=147110


Hi Ventil,
Thanks for the submission. That is a nice simple set-up you have there.  I can not read much but the schematic makes mostly sense to me.  I see you have two voltage regulators (7805 - 5v and a 7512 - 12v) supplying power to K8004 (DC to PWM) and the MAP sensor mpx4250.  So you have adjusted a ref voltage so that the PWM duty cycle varies with the output voltage from the MAP (0-5V?).  The variable duty cycle is controlling the factory N75 (0V = 0%, 5V = 100%?).  The large resiters are voltage dividers to modify the ouput voltage to the N75.  I am also thinking you might be able to modify the signal by creating a voltage divider in the MAP feed using a TPS and another voltage divider.  If you could explain a bit more or correct any of misinterpretations, that would be great.

Hi! My english isn't good but i think, You understand me.
K8004 is the kit (DC to PWM) from Velleman company. Here you can download K8004 datasheet in english (PDF format) http://www.sklep.avt.com.pl/go/_info/?id=42796
MAP sensor is a INTEGRATED PRESSURE SENSOR 20 to 250 kPa (2.9 to 36.3 psi) 0.2 to 4.9 V OUTPUT - here You can download datasheet in english (PDF format)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/M/P/X/4/MPX4250AP.shtml
First voltage regulator (12V, 6A) is for K8004, second (5V, 1A) is for MAP sensor. The variable duty cycle is controlling the factory N75 but i add this large resistors to reverse output voltage. Those resistors are connected to output K8004 (load +, load -) but N75 is connected - one lead to drain of T2 MOSFET and one to source of T2 MOSFET. This way when input is 0V - output is MAX (about 12V) and when input is 5V - output is MIN (about 0V).
When output is max the N75 connect full vacum to turbo - variable vane are closed makes turbo to full pressure. When turbo pressure going up the output voltage going down connect free air to actuator - in this moment variable vane are opened and turbo reduce pressure. N75 needs 50Hz voltage so You need to connect condenser 100nF (0,1uF)  parallel to C3 on K8004 plate. Points A and B on my illustration You can connect together or add diode (diodes in rows) to make open variable vane later.
Additionally You can build simple Frequency to DC converter and make limit the boost at low rpm - on low rpm converter gives 5V on K8004 input and when rpms going up the voltage on F to DC converter output going down.
I think now I explain better.
Nice work...
4-M TDI PROJECT login: tdi, hasło: tdi

Reply #12February 02, 2008, 06:25:26 pm

jtanguay

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 6879
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2008, 06:25:26 pm »
seems too complicated.  i like the mechanical linkage better  :wink:


This is how we deal with porn spammers! You've been warned.

Reply #13February 03, 2008, 10:44:18 am

Tintin

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1279
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2008, 10:44:18 am »
And how you set the desired boost?  example: 18PSI...  you have a boost spike?

Reply #14February 03, 2008, 03:39:01 pm

lbreton

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 56
Aftermarket Turbo Controller for m_TDI's
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2008, 03:39:01 pm »
Quote from: "Tintin"
And how you set the desired boost?  example: 18PSI...  you have a boost spike?

I read through the links he enclosed.  The output from the MAP is .2V to 4.9V for 2.9 to 36.3psi.  For 18psi, the output would be about 2.25V.  It looks like trim pot RV2 on the K8004 can be used to adjust the duty cycle relative to your input voltage, so if you set it so duty cycle is 100% at 2.25 volts, that will give you a 18psi max. The sensor has a resolution of 20mV/KPA, and a 1.5% temperature deviation.
I think this circuit could be taken further by splicing a pot (TPS) into the feed to the dcin to modifiy the boost level relative to the throttle position.
'97 F250 5.9 Cummins, POD's, PDR cam, Custom Pump, Stage II Port, 14CM, blabla
'92 Passat Syncro- AHU eTDI, PP520's, 2.5 Str
'99 Audi A4 Quattro - 2.0 BHW TDI, EDC15P, GT2056V, AWIC, 5Speed Euro Tranny - 214Whp/363TQ

 

S-PAutomotive.com