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AWD options. by 914turboford on 19 Dec, 2007 11:44
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I have been considering a couple of options for making my diesel Caddy AWD.
1. Using a trans from a 1.8T Passat 4Motion. Downside: Probably very pricey.
2. Using a trans from a Corrola All Trac, Honda RT4WD Civic or CRV, or from an AWD Ford Tempo. There are some oddities of motors that bolt up in the automotive world, like the early Capri V6's that have the same pattern as an air cooled VW. Anyone know of any BH patterns that happen to be the same as a liquid cooled VW? Otherwise, an adaptor plate would be required and I probably wouldn't do it.
3. A hybrid that keeps the front drivetrain intact and adds a Golf Cart motor to an axle such as an 84-87 Honda Civic RT4WD Wagon which has a live axle with 4x100 bolt pattern. Or maybe a DeDion setup from an AWD Caravan. Then add 4 or so Golf Cart batteries and some way to control the motor with a potentiometer on the diesel pedal. Run a big alternator on the diesel motor to keep the batteries charged. The motor would free wheel most of the time except when AWD is needed. For me this amounts to getting in and out of my street when the snow plow has not been by for awhile.
What do you think about any/all of these ideas? -
#1 by KTZed on 19 Dec, 2007 12:01
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Drivetrain from a Passat Syncro
See here for coolest rabbit EVER....(well it might be cooler with a PD150 but still)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2717417&page=1 -
#2 by Black Smokin' Diesel on 20 Dec, 2007 19:35
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Quote from: "KTZed"
Drivetrain from a Passat Syncro
Yep, probably the cheapest way to build an AWD caddy. They were only available in Canada but they're pretty cheap (even more if you find one with a busted G60 charger). -
#3 by 914turboford on 21 Dec, 2007 06:00
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So this was a G60 Synchro? Were they made in the early to mid 90's like the G60 Golfs sold here in the US? Who would you try to get one from? Canadian auto wrecker?
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#4 by fastvicar on 21 Dec, 2007 06:29
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Golf G60 was not imported to U.S. (though I wish it was). Not sure how the rear axle setup from a Passat would work on the Caddy.
Have you considered just buying a 4wd diesel pickup? :? -
#5 by 914turboford on 21 Dec, 2007 08:38
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Quote from: "fastvicar"
Golf G60 was not imported to U.S. (though I wish it was). Not sure how the rear axle setup from a Passat would work on the Caddy.
I think I would use a live axle from a Corolla AllTrac or a 84-87 Civic RT4WD. Gear ratios would be an issue. Or maybe a DeDion setup from an AWD Caravan and a pumpkin from a Synchro, Subaru, MB, whatever.Quote from: "fastvicar"Have you considered just buying a 4wd diesel pickup? :?
That would be like winning a contest against a Dolphin. You know, defeating the Porpoise.
Good point, though. A Mitsubishi Mighty Max Turbo diesel 4x4 would be cool. Kind of hard to find around here, though. And, probably 27mpg tops. I think an AWD VW Caddy 1.6TD could probably get 35mpg. It would weigh about 800 lbs. less, I'd think. -
#6 by Black Smokin' Diesel on 21 Dec, 2007 20:34
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Quote from: "fastvicar"
Golf G60 was not imported to U.S. (though I wish it was). Not sure how the rear axle setup from a Passat would work on the Caddy.
The syncro rear axle and suspension is mounted on a subframe. You would need to fab mounts to install in on the Caddy. It shouldn't be too hard as long as everything is straight. -
#7 by Ziptar on 22 Dec, 2007 07:08
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Get a VW AWD / Syncro Transaxle from an MKII Golf Country (Europe Only), Passat G60 Syncro Wagon (Canada), or a Golf MKIII Syncro Variant (wagon) (Europe Only) and yes they do exist, came with TDIs even.
Use the rear live axle out of a smaller passenger car that used rear leaf springs maybe. Would be easy to bolt up to the caddy leaf springs.
Prime Candidate:
1976-1987 Chevy Chevette
1) Uses a 4 x 100 lug bolt circle.
2) Used rear leaf springs
3) Was about the same size as a MKI.
4) Was available as stick, automatic, and even diesel so there might be a plethora of ratios out there. A quick search or car-part.com turns up 3.70, 3.66, 4.11,
Other 4 x 100, RWD, Leaf Spring Possibilities:
Isuzu - Impulse, I-Mark to 1989
Early Opel Kadett or GT
The trick would be getting the right ratio and bolt pattern and connecting the prop shaft. Probably have to fab a tunnel for the prop shaft too.
But hey, with enough money and / or shop tools anything could be over come.
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#8 by fastvicar on 22 Dec, 2007 07:55
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I used to drive a Chevette diesel! Manual, of course. Though there was actually someone from my church who had an automatic version at the same time. I can only imagine how slow it was.
A Chevette rear would be a good fit, I would think. Another option would be to find an older S10 4x4 and then fit an Isuzu 2.2 TD into it. They were avaible in 2wd only from the factory (AFAIK) but the conversion into a gasser 4wd shouldn't be terribly difficult. Gear ratios may take some time to get right. -
#9 by 914turboford on 22 Dec, 2007 10:26
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Quote from: "Ziptar"
Use the rear live axle out of a smaller passenger car that used rear leaf springs maybe. Would be easy to bolt up to the caddy leaf springs.
Prime Candidate:
1976-1987 Chevy Chevette
1) Uses a 4 x 100 lug bolt circle.
2) Used rear leaf springs
3) Was about the same size as a MKI.
4) Was available as stick, automatic, and even diesel so there might be a plethora of ratios out there. A quick search or car-part.com turns up 3.70, 3.66, 4.11,
Other 4 x 100, RWD, Leaf Spring Possibilities:
Isuzu - Impulse, I-Mark to 1989
Early Opel Kadett or GT
The trick would be getting the right ratio and bolt pattern and connecting the prop shaft. Probably have to fab a tunnel for the prop shaft too.
But hey, with enough money and / or shop tools anything could be over come.
Actually none of these vehicles were leaf spring. In fact, they are all members of the same small car RWD platform that GM/Vauxhall developed for the European market in the 60's, IIRC. They were live axle cars, though, and cutting off the mounts for the links and welding on some spring perches would be pretty easy. So that brings the choices for 4x100 axles to:
1. Opel Kadett, Manta, GT, Isuzu Impulse, I-Mark, Chevette
2. 84-87 Honda RT4WD Civic
3. 80's-90's Corolla All Trac
You would think out of those choices that you could find the right ratio. The biggest hindrance I see is getting a trans here in Califorina. Any ideas on how to do that? -
#10 by MJF on 22 Dec, 2007 10:32
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Vw rear axles have 1,05 gear ratio
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#11 by KTZed on 22 Dec, 2007 12:45
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Ya you might have some trouble using anything other than the vw rear end. Since the trans is essentially the same as the fwd ones the diff is already in the trans. vw just uses about a 1:1 ratio out of the trans and the same at the rear end.
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#12 by 914turboford on 22 Dec, 2007 16:22
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Well that certainly changes things. I guess you're right. I'd have to use a VW pumpkin. Do you think any of the stateside rear pumpkins have that crazy ratio? Quattro, Quantum, V6 Synchros? Even with one of these you could still take advantage of the pickups rear suspension. You could use a rear axle from a Caravan, which is a DeDion setup, where the dif remains stationary and the wheels ride up and down on a U shaped, leaf sprung axle.
Or go with my Golf Cart motor idea on one of the 4x100 axles.
Brian -
#13 by Turbinepowered on 22 Dec, 2007 19:40
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Quantum Syncro rear end is 4.11, Most of the Quattros are 4.11 or 3.86 (I think?).
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#14 by Ziptar on 23 Dec, 2007 00:38
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As far as where to get a tranny Ecode Parts in Virgina could probably get it.
Have a fat wallet at the ready though.