Author Topic: 94 TD stall/no restart (Read 5101 times)

Kneale Brownson · « **on:** December 05, 2007, 01:26:22 pm »

I had my Jetta parked for a week or so until I could move it to my barn to install the snow tires. In the interim, it snowed so much I had to move it to permit plowing. Even though the portion of the drive behind where it was parked had already been cleaned of all but a bit of packed down snow, the apparently strictly summer tires on the car couldn't get enough grip to drag the rest around. I was rocking it to gain a little space, inch by inch, by letting the clutch out until it wouldn't move, pushing it back in to stop the wheels, letting it back out, etc. I'd gone maybe 10 feet forward and the engine stalled. Wouldn't restart. Wouldn't turn over very rapidly either. So I plugged in the coolant heater and hooked up a battery charger. The top radiator hose is almost hot, and the engine spins more rapidly, but I still get no sign of even wanting to fire. It looks like there is fuel in the clear fuel lines. No bubbles or anything. How can I be certain I'm getting fuel? Will the hot coolant circulate further? I have 15-40 oil.

bigblockchev · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:12:25 pm »

I would crack an injector line to see if you are getting fuel to the cylinder when cranking. If the weather has been cold you may have gotten a bit of frozen water in the lines preventing fuel flow or even gelled fuel. Or the fuel solenoid may have failed , turn on the ignition and remove the push on connector from the solenoid , you should hear a click as it comes off. If the engine is warm enough from the block heater, the glow plugs are less critical but I would check that they are working just the same. If you have fuel,heat ,compression and enough rpms it's gonna start. Cheers Dan

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2007, 02:30:21 pm »

Thanks, Dan. I finally got a moment to crack open a line to an injector and crank the engine over for several multisecond twirlings. No sign of any fuel at the injector pipe. I presume I wouldn't have to do more than make the connection finger-loose to get fuel if the pump were pumping.

Can you tell me where the fuel solenoid is? This is a 1994 Jetta TD.

It's been below freezing ever since the problem arose. But I'm using the same fuel source--a Shell outlet--as I'm using for the diesel tractor I plow the snow with, and that tractor has exhibited no running problems. It's my understanding Shell winterizes its diesel fuels. The previous fill-up, however, was some other brand beside an expressway in Southern Michigan a month earlier, so I could have had some water in the tank, I suppose.

bigblockchev · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2007, 06:00:36 pm »

The fuel solenoid points up at the back of the IP it is directly above where the four injector lines connect at the back of the pump ie drivers side. There is another solenoid on the side of the IP this is the wrong one. With the ignition switched on there should be 12V at the quick connect on top of the solenoid. If you pull the terminal off with ign on you should hear a click from the solenoid. If not use a jumper from the + terminal of the battery and you should hear the click, if it clicks then leave the jumper on and try to start. If it doesent click you can try unscrewing it to see if it is stuck, shake it a bit or tap with a screwdriver handle on the side to see if it loosens up maybe soak it in room temperature varsol. You should also check the continuity of the solenoid with a meter. If it is open circuited then it is shot, if it has a few ohms resistance then the coil is probably OK ( I cant remember the exact resistance maybe someone could jump in here with this value) I would also try to feed fuel from a plastic bottle with a supply and return hose more or less from the fuel filter, simulating the fuel tank but easier to observe. You should be getting a dribble from the return hose if the IP is actually pumping anything. If it starts with the plastic bottle maybe your fuel filter is plugged or frozen. Let us know further details cheers Dan

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2007, 03:21:36 pm »

Is the solenoid I want in the area of the single blue line and the "wrong one" the connector where the double blue line is?

bigblockchev · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2007, 05:23:55 pm »

It is the one by the single blue line. Cheers Dan

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2007, 03:53:11 pm »

When I went to try removing the connector, the wire fell off in my fingers. Looks like the wire has been broken inside the connector.

So I trimmed the wire, added a splice and a new insulated female connector and slid it over the spade on the solenoid.

In the process, I noticed the hose to the radiator is no longer warm. It appears my block heater ceased functioning. The engine now won't spin as quickly as before, and I'm not sure it spins enough to start. Do these block heaters work intermittently? Or is mine fried from being plugged in for a couple days? Temperatures today were in the high teens (F) and are expected to hit single digits tonight and over the next several days.

jtanguay · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2007, 03:59:33 pm »

Quote from: "Kneale Brownson"

When I went to try removing the connector, the wire fell off in my fingers. Looks like the wire has been broken inside the connector.

So I trimmed the wire, added a splice and a new insulated female connector and slid it over the spade on the solenoid.

In the process, I noticed the hose to the radiator is no longer warm. It appears my block heater ceased functioning. The engine now won't spin as quickly as before, and I'm not sure it spins enough to start. Do these block heaters work intermittently? Or is mine fried from being plugged in for a couple days? Temperatures today were in the high teens (F) and are expected to hit single digits tonight and over the next several days.

the block heater is in an expansion plug in the back of the engine. i highly doubt it would make the front rad hoses warm in subzero temps. if you bought one of those coolant heaters it would circulate hot coolant a bit better. there's always the possibility that it is dead, but i doubt it. i'm pretty sure that it is thermostatically controlled. if your stop solenoid wire is that brittle i wonder what your starter cable is like?

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2007, 04:50:57 pm »

After I plugged the heater in several days ago, and it sat overnight, the top radiator hose was warm to the touch and the snow that had accumulated on the hood was melting off. The engine turned over much more rapidly than before I started using the heater, but I got no fire. Then found the bad wire at the pump solenoid, but now the engine is colder and turns over much more slowly.

I know from my diesel tractor (three-cylinder Detroit Diesel) that it won't start if the engine won't spin fast enough. I always plug it in unless the temperature has been in the high 30s or higher and it starts pretty easily after an hour or so of using the block coolant heater. I had it plugged in today for an hour when the ambient temperature was around 10 above F, and the tractor started right up.

Would weak starter wiring contribute to slow turning over of the engine? The battery is fully charged up by a battery tender that's been plugged in as long as the heater has.

bigblockchev · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2007, 05:14:00 pm »

Kneale did you ever establish that the glow plugs were Ok. If you get a bit of heat to the combustion chamber it helps greatly. If you are now getting fuel to the cylinders then heat from the glow plugs is the next thing to be certain of. If the glow plugs aren't working you have to get the engine quite hot with a block or oilpan heater to compensate. No heat = no start no matter how fast the engine spins. You can try blowing into the turbo intake with a heat gun or hair dryer while cranking but this is a two man operation and you have to remove the plastic air cleaner pipes to avoid melting them. You might try a shot of WD40 into the turbo intake to supply some fuel as well. If the battery spins the engine slow try jumping from a large running vehicle. Remember if you have fuel, heat, compression and revs it is going to start.
Cheers Dan

Kneale Brownson · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2007, 06:54:31 pm »

Haven't checked the glow plugs yet. They worked a couple weeks ago. They worked to start the car before it stalled. I'll try to check the glow plug wiring.

jtanguay · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2007, 08:31:25 pm »

make sure to turn off the gp's if you use any kind of starting fluid. wd40 likes to eat seals too like rubber.

if its not starting fast enough clean the wires, or replace them. there is a lot of 12v current going through the wire going to the starter since the alternator wire goes to the starter, then to the battery. electrolysis can do some terrible things to metal (huge downside to using 12v) :wink: mine corroded off one day and i couldn't start my car. soldered the wire back on and its all good over 2 years later

you can also try to use a 0w40 synthetic oil as they help a lot, but have a tendency to burn off quicker. my car has nearly 400'000km but doesn't leak any 0w40. however it does burn it a bit faster depending on how i drive.

btw what CCA rating is your battery? you'd want to get at least 900 CCA