Author Topic: Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)  (Read 8081 times)

December 12, 2007, 09:41:41 am

BejamminR

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« on: December 12, 2007, 09:41:41 am »
All right, I've promised a few people some videos and pictures of the shop so that they could see more clearly what exactly is involved in the testing / calibration of a diesel fuel pump, or so that they can see what we do differently at Performance Diesel Injection versus some of the other pump rebuilders.
We have just been working on TedV's 1.6TD pump, and I've recorded some vids for everyone to see what it is we're DOING when we say that we're testing / calibrating a fuel pump. Before I do that, here are a few images of the shop and test bench.

A shot of the test bench we are using for these fuel pumps.


Giles next to the test bench - I think he believed I was going to do a video, as he appears to be saying something.   :lol:


TedV's 1.6TD pump, fully modified, mounted up and ready for testing.


If you want to see the tests, I've uploaded 4 videos to YouTube; here are the links. These are unscripted, so try not to mind if we don't sound like actors, or if Giles says "variable infinitely drive with planetary gears" instead of "infinitely variable" or something.  8)

We tried not to make them too "marketing", because we hate being 'sold' stuff too, but we're proud of what we do here, and we have as much fun with it as you do. Hope you guys like these, let me know if you have any questions!

Part 1: Quick tour of the test bench and associated equipment.

Part 2: Testing the "no-boost" fuelling on TedV's pump. Stock or just above stock fuelling at low RPM's with no boost... no smoke.k

Part 3: Testing the "full-boost" fuelling on TedV's pump. 20PSI of boost supplied, huge fuelling increase (~140% ABOVE stock), completely burnable with minimal smoke.

Part 4: We decide to see just how high we can rev this pump without starting to seriously cut out fuel. Turns out ~6500eRPM (Engine RPM) is definitely the maximum here.  :wink:

Enjoy!

Reply #1December 12, 2007, 10:04:44 am

Slave2School

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 10:04:44 am »
Very cool :)
Waiting for a bigger better diesel to come along.
2002 ford focme wagon

Reply #2December 12, 2007, 10:29:57 am

burn_your_money

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 10:29:57 am »
It all looks so familiar 8)

Must remember to call Giles
Tyler

Reply #3December 12, 2007, 11:53:53 am

saurkraut

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 11:53:53 am »
That what i'm talk'n about!

Finally, the answer to the question:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9975&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And see, no proprietary information was devulged.  No secrits revealed, and Giles family still gets to eat.

Great vids, nice clean shop.  Very Professional!
'79 1.6TD RABBIT
'84 1.5TD RABBIT
'83 Diesel Westy
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo Quatro Wagon
92 Audi 100
'93 Eurovan
'82 Porsche 930

Reply #4December 12, 2007, 12:01:20 pm

BejamminR

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 12:01:20 pm »
Thanks, Saurkraut. Glad you like it!

There will be more pictures and video to follow - whenever I either have time to snap and upload stuff, or else whenever I get bored. If people want to see certain things in particular, just let me know and I'll see what I can do. Provided it doesn't give away sensitive information or anything, we're happy to let people see whatever we can, whether in person or through this kind of medium.

Reply #5December 12, 2007, 12:38:39 pm

jtanguay

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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 12:38:39 pm »
this is awesome... hopefully now everyone understands why the price may seem steep.  you get what you pay for, but this is really a great deal!

thanks for sharing. i hope that gets Giles some extra business as there are tons of people on youtube with diesels! :)


This is how we deal with porn spammers! You've been warned.

Reply #6December 12, 2007, 03:50:07 pm

larry104

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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 03:50:07 pm »
Excellent! Thanks for sharing. It's further confirmation that I made the right choice to have Giles build the pump on my Eco. Though I haven't run a timed zero to 60 mph on both cars, I think the Eco is faster than my stock '98 TDI.    :D

Reply #7December 12, 2007, 04:22:54 pm

zagarus

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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 04:22:54 pm »
its a beautiful thing those pumps. I cant wait to send mine in :D
Project 1.9TD Jetta Coupe Completed. Back in action!

Reply #8December 12, 2007, 04:24:11 pm

blkboostedtruck

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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 04:24:11 pm »
It's great to see the man and Giles behind the magic! iv'e always wondered how that was done?  is Giles gonna train more apprentices so his lost art and knowledge don't go to the grave with him? also what can i use to make my pump look new like TedV's pump does that wont hurt it? i hope thats not a trade secrete that you can't share with me either? thanks for the vids. and keep up the world renoun work
thanks Duane
injector rebuilds call  414-840-1395 for faster service not on line much!
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Reply #9December 12, 2007, 04:35:15 pm

westcoaster

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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 04:35:15 pm »
Ok, I going to be the guy to ask the dumb question....


Does every pump that gets sent to your shop for a rebuild get the same treatment (flow tested etc.) even for simple rebuilds/modifications?
'87 suzuki samurai with a 1.9 AAZ TD transplant

Reply #10December 12, 2007, 04:49:09 pm

BejamminR

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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 04:49:09 pm »
Absolutely yes.

There is absolutely not an exception at our shop. [EDIT]I was a bit dramatic in my answer as far as the testing. When putting the pump on the test bench, it's not really because of a concern that anything will go wrong with the pump. If it's built right, it's not going to explode. The purpose for putting it on the test bench is just calibration, to ensure that the pump IS in the correct flow range according to the manufacturer test plan. [/EDIT]

Hope that answers the question, and there was nothing dumb about it at all. The only difference with a "simple" rebuild or seal replace or whatever is that we'll only check to verify that it works all the way through the range (as specified by the test plan) and that it is in spec for fuel delivery, or between X and Y acceptable "stock" flow range. With a custom pump, we will do that flow-test, and then Giles will continue to make modifications to maximize the pump up to the upper end of the range specified by Bosch's test plan for any given RPM and boost level, allowing you to maximize your potential fuelling without raising every fuel level throughout the range.

Reply #11December 12, 2007, 05:58:49 pm

westcoaster

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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 05:58:49 pm »
Thanks, you did answer my question.



So here's another one.

As you can see in my sig my 1.6td isn't exactly a conventional use for the vw diesel.
My plans aren't for auto cross, hot rodding etc.  
My motor does need a rebuild. (as well as the injection pump as it's leaking fuel)
In the samurai application the rpm's will be higher than stock (around 3500 rpm@110Kmh depending on tire size.

My goal is reliability out of the motor, fuel economy, low end torque and well, as an after thought, performance.

What will a Giles pump give me that any old regular pump won't?
What can you do for me that other shops doing a simple rebuild can't? (a private message or email to [email protected] would be good if you feel I am hijacking this thread...)

I realise you have no control over most of the motor reliability but how the pump is set up can affect the rest of the motor....


It's not often one has the ability to communicate directly like this to a supplier.  Thank you for the opportunity and the insight to your operation.

Jarl
'87 suzuki samurai with a 1.9 AAZ TD transplant

Reply #12December 12, 2007, 06:15:41 pm

BejamminR

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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 06:15:41 pm »
Westcoaster - not a hijack at all, this is exactly what the thread is for, to give a bit of an insight into the "black box" that Performance Diesel Injection / Giles' processes seem to have become. Giles would like to be more in touch with his customers - especially with us, since the performance side of things is his baby - but he's super busy most of the time, and I type a lot faster than he does :lol:.

As far as your particular application, it sounds like a sweet ride. My brother would absolutely love a system like that - actually, it's just about the only way I could ever convince him to drive anything German.  :wink:

My understanding and experience is that our engines don't prefer to rev super fast; conventional wisdom is that the slower a diesel engine runs (all other things being equal) the longer it lasts. There are of course provisios and stuff, I'm not trying to start an argument on that point, since there are plenty of people with very long-lived AAZ's that run way higher than 3,500RPM every day of the week.

So that's one point with regard to reliability. As far as what we can give you that another shop can't with a regular rebuild? First, you saw the videos. Basically, we are just more meticulous than many (We're of the opinion that "most" or "all" is a fair word, but that may be opinion) other pump builders. Rather than just replacing damaged components, Giles examines the entire pump, replacing components which WILL be damaged soon, components which can't handle the stress we/you are going to put on it, components which can be swapped out but don't strictly have to, etc. He uses a combination of OEM components and custom-fabricated bits in order to get the job done to his specifications, and he regularly tears down the pump multiple times in order to fine-tune. That's the part you don't see in the video, Giles testing the pump, writing down the numbers for specific RPM's, bringing it back to his workbench, and stripping it down again to make further adjustments in order to maximize the fuel curve all through the range which your pump is going to see on your engine.

Short answer:
- We can give you more fuel, where you NEED it, rather than just "more fuel across the board".
- We can give you 30-40% (or more) useable horsepower
- We can give you better fuel efficiency (Amount varies with pump, there's only so much we can do to tweak, and we can't be accountable for the weight of your foot  8) )
- We can give you a higher and wider useable engine/pump speed range

So yes, 3500RPM is quite reasonably possible, at a nominal level of reliability. Everything is a tradeoff, of course - if you're going for complete reliability, an overbuilt totally-stock setup might offer better engine longevity than any performance system, one can never be sure. But as far as the sweet spot in terms of high performance, high reliability, and best bang for your buck... well, that's what we can offer you that a lot of shops can't. They might anyway, but unless they've got the experience, track record, and customer list to back it up, I would remain highly skeptical.

Also, I apologize in advance if any of my after-hours posts wind up with more errors than usual or anything, I'm trying to make some dinner and stuff while I hammer these out.

At any rate, does that answer your question?

Reply #13December 12, 2007, 07:01:25 pm

RabbitJockey

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Fuel Pump Testing / Calibration (Images / Video)
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 07:01:25 pm »
haha i like that coat, like a doctor.  i bet its nice for working on cars with though.  nice shop nice seeing your equipment.
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Reply #14December 12, 2007, 07:02:17 pm

TedV

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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 07:02:17 pm »
Wow, the pump looks nothing like the hunk of junk I shipped up there.  It cleaned up nice.  It looked and smelled like it sat around for a while, 1.6TD parts aren’t that common around the hills here.  Now if the rest of the build goes this smooth.  Oh yeah, it’s not.  Hope the customs folks don’t decide to “lose” the pump on one of their cars.  

Fuel cuts out at 6500rpm,   hmmm… when do the valves float and hit pistons on a 1.6TD?  

Cool, they made me famous.  Reputation of Giles philosophy is why I sent the pump there, this thread is confirming it, meticulous attention to detail.  I can’t wait to get the ole Scirocco driving.