Fixmyvw.com

Author Topic: M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...  (Read 28910 times)

Reply #30December 15, 2007, 07:59:29 am

Vento G60

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2007, 07:59:29 am »
I found this pump on ebay, is it any good?

Unknown VAG Einspritzpumpe

Diesel

Unknown condition

PArt numbers:

0 460 424 125

R660

770

130342

23734

Also. re-indexing the throttle shaft as I described in an earlier post, doesn't bring that much, I can make the throttle shaft turn a little more, but can't feel any power increase in the last part of the throttle..

I will be waiting for Bert to make progress with the control lever, and we'll see what that will do. I don't know what else I could do to the pump at this moment to improve things.

Maybe the pump which I posted above is a good option?

Sander
Vw's rock!

Reply #31December 15, 2007, 09:06:50 am

Tintin

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1279
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2007, 09:06:50 am »
DA-BRT, if you need part number, I have the program wich show all the pump parts number with pump reference number.

Reply #32December 15, 2007, 09:19:33 am

Tintin

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1279
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2007, 09:19:33 am »
0-460-424-125  It's a Iveco daily 2.8L pump, 1800rpm (3600rpm engine)

240B inj.

I think that it is a very good pump.

Reply #33December 15, 2007, 01:36:13 pm

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2007, 01:36:13 pm »
@Tintin: Thanks for the offer. I got a good source of numbers and pumps myself. But if I can't find what I need, I'll send you a PM.

@VentoG60: I think shimming the trottle shaft will solve a lot of the hanging problems. But with your current control leaver the pump will never give you the maximum fuel. Talk to you beginning next week.

Reply #34December 24, 2007, 09:05:37 am

Vento G60

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2007, 09:05:37 am »
Quote
Tintin
0-460-424-125 It's a Iveco daily 2.8L pump, 1800rpm (3600rpm engine)

240B inj.

I think that it is a very good pump.


I just bought this pump on ebay for 127 euro. :D  Shipping will hopefully happen this week, and maybe I'll have it next week monday or so then. 8)  So is this a bolt on ready to run pump option, or do I have to modify some stuff?

The way I understand I will have to modify the governor spring to up the rpm's, and probably have a pulley custom made to fit to get proper alignment? Or is there maybe another standard pulley available which will bolt right on and align ok?

I hope this pump will make my AHU with K24 really go when it's on! :twisted:  What kind of horsepower could I expect with K24, no IC, AHU std nozzles and modified exhaust? I hope more than 90 or so!

I'll keep you posted.

Greetz
Vw's rock!

Reply #35January 07, 2008, 07:54:35 pm

snakemaster

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 405
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 07:54:35 pm »
well i have opend up my pump to shim the gov but how much dose it need to be shimed by 0.5mm   0.2mm  ? come on guys throw me a freking bone on this one ,  one washer behind the gov is 1.37mm  other one 1.51mm
Glenmorangie  single highland malt

Reply #36January 08, 2008, 02:11:19 am

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2008, 02:11:19 am »
This weekend I checked Vento G60's (Sander) pump out. It realy looks good, no strange things.

Couple of problems for this pump to keep in mind.

The nose of the pump is short the same as the VW 1600 pumps. There is no caged govenor and there is a big actuator at the back for cold start advancing. The actuator can't stay there because of to little space between the head and the pump.

I'm now changing a pulley from a VW 1600 to fit on this pump. Hope that Sander can mount it on the Cabrio this weekend and have a test drive.  :twisted:

Reply #37January 08, 2008, 03:17:36 am

jtanguay

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 6879
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2008, 03:17:36 am »
Quote from: "DA-BRT"
There is no caged govenor


hmmm...  this might be the reason that the rpm's hang...  about what rpm's does it hang??

you can easily push an ALH with a K24 to about 120 hp with alh being stock.  seeing the TDI being pushed to around 180 hp (stock form) using resistors is amazing.  probably a lot of smoke up there but still...  IC is definitely recommended to keep the smoke down.


This is how we deal with porn spammers! You've been warned.

Reply #38January 08, 2008, 07:52:47 am

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 07:52:47 am »
The new never mounted pump hasn't got a caged govenor. I previously used uncaged govenors but that was not a problem. I placed a stronger spring and it reved higher.

Reply #39January 08, 2008, 12:12:35 pm

Vento G60

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 12:12:35 pm »
Indeed Bert! The pump that is hopefully going to be installed by you and me this weekend is the  :twisted: 0460 424 125 :twisted:  Iveco Turbodaily pump, which I hope we won't have any trouble with regarding rpm hanging or lack of fueling, like the hybrid 1.9D pump with TDI 11 mm plunger and 1.6 TD head that's on now.

Still, thanks for thinking with us jtanguay, I appreciate it.

I will post more about how the cabby performs with her new pump. Soon, I am going to change the nozzles (or rather Bert is going to do the work :wink: ) for ??? whatever Bert recommends. Hopefully I will soon find a good IC setup to fit nicely in between the radiator and grille, if anyone has any good tips for me that would be appreciated.

Sander
Vw's rock!

Reply #40January 08, 2008, 01:43:18 pm

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2008, 01:43:18 pm »
Just take out te Vento IC....  :wink:    8)

Reply #41January 13, 2008, 05:36:29 pm

Vento G60

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 12
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2008, 05:36:29 pm »
Put the pump on (the iveco pump) yesterday and got it running today. We had visitors yesterday and went out to visit some friends today, so I didn't have that much time to get it on and get it going. There were also some clearance issues for the advanced timing mechanism at the back (engine side of the pump), so I had to cut a bit out of the pump support bracket to be able to have enough adjustment possibility on the pump.

Finally tonight I got it up and running.

First impression, wow what a throttle response! Completely different from the old pump though, I think probably because of the spring that is not caged and not reinforced yet. But that will come soon enough I think.

It now revs up to around 4000 rpm-ish, I still don't have a rev counter yet.. Boost is immediately there at the touch of the throttle. It makes about 1,5+ Bar at around 2500 rpm in 5th, but the wastegate of the turbo is closed by me, so that helps too of course. NEvertheless, the old pump couldn't get the boost up to more than 1,1 Bar at 3500 rpm.

It pulls great along the rpm range, not smoking too much at all. I still have the maximum fuel screw set up against the collar that is still on the pump. first I am going to get a IC, some other nozzles, a new exhaust pipe, and a 02A tranny (has to be installed, as my clutch can't take the beating as this point, if I put my foot down to hard, it slips in 3rd, 4th and 5th) :twisted: .

So if someone wants to build a M-TDI, definitely go for one of these pumpe, all that has to be done to fit it is remove the advance timing actuator, have a custom pulley made, and take a little bit of your bracket, and she will go like crazy, with a lot of fueling reserve.

I'm a happy guy now!
Vw's rock!

Reply #42January 13, 2008, 08:57:39 pm

Tintin

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1279
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2008, 08:57:39 pm »
Glad to hear  :wink: you see, that takes a real DI pump for a TDI engine, Also M-TDI 10mm pump would have made this effect.

Reply #43February 10, 2008, 01:27:39 am

hillfolk'r

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1532
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2008, 01:27:39 am »
Quote from: "RabbitGTDguy"
It is amazing the number of different pumps, etc. available on the other side of the pond that would make the mTDI conversion so much easier. Still though...modification in the end.
Shimming of the gov. and the overall governor mod is def. important but depending on your setup, like DA-BRT and TinTin mention there are modifications that need to be done to the control lever assembly itself (as illustrated above). However, the control lever involves and effects more of the "full throttle response" vs. hanging RPM problems in my experience. Using the stock IDI control lever assembly seriously limits your fueling potential of the pump on an mTDI. That is just one factor.

I'd like to see how one of our "mTDI" pumps would perform on a test bench ... that'd be nice. No one around here will test outside factory Bosch parameters though. I'd like to have my pump tested... but I haven't even found someone to pop and reshim my injectors for the R520's currently installed!!!

Joe






i keep tellin you guys that my boy in ohio can set you up and "go outside factory parameters"!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:  :wink:
Throttle cables ftw

Reply #44February 10, 2008, 03:06:34 am

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
M-tdi hangs in high RPM's, newbie, help please...
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2008, 03:06:34 am »
We are also going outside the parameters, but it saves time if the base is already a big pump.  :wink:

Last week I bought a couple of new 0 460 424 222 pumps (from a 2.8TDI)

The only thing I needed to change was the mounting plate in the rear. Could mount the TDI distribution wheel without problems.