1.9 TD start issues -GTA dubbers... help !

[vvandu]

GTA: Scarborough --> Finch / Birchmount

Noob has no more options...  :cry:

I was wondering if any locals have spare time to come take a peak at my 1994 golf td in scarborough... i doesnt seem to be much hope for me to get this started anymore.  I dont have any tools either to check the electrical system (seems like glowplugs) to atleast know what is exactly wrong.
 
The battery was replaced (CAA batteries) a couple days ago, (age) started within a couple cranks, that whole day was normal... however, parked it for the night and the next morning it seems like the motor was starving for fuel, the motor had difficulty "catching".

I got it going after a VERY long session of cranking and playing with the throttle... CAA guy said it was because of all the air in my fuel lines, but I didnt notice anymore bubbles than before.

Basically if somebody in the neighborhood is kind enough to come give me a hand starting this without just wearing down the starter for 20 minutes every morning (past 3 days)... And for now Im sure you guys have better solution than mine to start this car so i can drive it to an auto shop instead of towing it...  

Also, any recommendations of diesel shops in the scarborough area will be greatly appreciated, or if anybody is interested in tackling on side jobs? Compression, glowplugs, and IP settings are for sure in need!

Ive already used up all my CAA service calls too! :oops:
Pm me or email me for more questions please!
[email protected]

[burn_your_money]

Go to canadian tire or walmart or whatever is in walking distance and get a multimeter. Have a friend turn the key to run and check for power at the glow plug bus bar. No power is either a bad fuse (it's on the firewall I think, just follow the wires) or a bad glow plug relay.

You also might have a failing crank pulley which is causing your timing to go out of whack. But start with the simple stuff first.

Another possibility is bad connections at the starter or the battery resulting in not enough power getting to the starter for it to turn over fast enough.

How many air bubbles are you seeing?

If I had a car I'd come down and get it going for you. Message me next weekend if you still haven't got it fixed

[vvandu]

Okay, will do the gp test tomorrow...

As for the air bubbles; i never really counted or payed attention but i would say it ranges 2 - 5... they come in waves sometimes depends on how much you rev it... im not sure if that helps.

What is too many... could it be the reason its not catching at all?  I dont notice any more or less from before this hard starting issue started...

Im considering replacing the fuel filter tmrw if I can get a hold of one on a sunday, as well and running some fuel additive/treatments for once, any particular brands you recommend?

[ilomax]

Well... It's technically supposed to be a sealed system... So, no bubble.

I get the occasional stream of bubble and I have no problems...

Sounds like glow plugs.

How are you battery cables and cables off of the positive battery cable?

[vvandu]

The cables looked good to me just at the terminal, ill check everything start to finish tmrw.  New battery, clean.

I do cycle my glow plugs a couple times here and there, the dash light is going on then off correctly... (when warm they dont appear or maybe appear for a couple seconds)  At the start of the day I would need to warm them for a good 7-10seconds though.

Its really the INITIAL start up in the mornings, if i get past that then im good, it wont struggle to start after that.  

Did i mention my coolant temp guage stays on average around 70C too? thats just a thermostat i believe and that shouldnt have any effect on the Starting system correct?  The temperature will rise to normal 90C randomly when idling however...

[ilomax]

Do you have a block heater?  

It still really sounds like glow plugs.

Do you have real battery cables or do you have the kind were you cut the wire and clamp it down.

I had the clamp down, temp. style and that was causing my starting issues.  Glow plugs weren't getting enough juice.

[Vincent Waldon]

I do cycle my glow plugs a couple times here and there, the dash light is going on then off correctly...

Sadly the dash light doesn't actually show when the glow plugs are getting current... in other words, the dash light can do its thing and the glow plugs can still not be getting any current.

I just mention it so that you don't waste time thinking the two are related as you troubleshoot... they aren't !

Given your symptoms I'm betting you'll find no power at the glow plug buss as per Tyler's suggestions (meaning a relay problem or the big 50A fuse that's bolted in the engine compartment on the firewall) or 2 or more of your plugs have given up the ghost... real common this time of year... of course !!

Vince

[g-spec]

When it starts does it smoke....I remember when i first ran into problems with the crank pulley....the car was hard to start and it would smoke a little just idling it was bluish/white smoke....unburnt diesel due to retarded timing.
When the car is running check to see if the crank pulley is wobbling a lot....

[jtanguay]

guys he got his crank pulley fixed a while ago.  just to let ya know  :wink: i think its due to a leaky return line.  it can sometimes take forever to prime the pump from those damn lines!  especially the long one going from injector no.4 back to the pump.

i'm considering selling him my facet fuel pump as a bandaid for now.  that thing is PIMP!  :lol: 3-4 psi min & 7psi max but only about 1 amp power draw.  absolutely no bubbles after installing the pump.  the only time i had bubbles before was after revving the motor hard under the hood.  now i can't get any bubbles to show in the clear lines.  haven't changed my fuel filter since installing it either, so haven't had a chance to experience an easy fuel filter install  :cry:

anyone interested in these pumps, there is a whackload of them being sold on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PUROLATOR-FACET-SOLID-STAT-UNIVERSAL-ELECTRI-FUEL-PUMP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33555QQihZ020QQitemZ300109151627QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

from the same dude.  

         • 12 - 84 inches minimum dry lift
         • 14 - 34 GPH
         • 2 - 11.5 PSI
         • Transient Protection
         • State of the art Electronics
         • Sealed Electronics
         • Reverse Polarity protection
         • Built in check valve
         • Built in Anti-Siphon Valve
         • UL Certified
         • 1.6 amp average
         • Self Priming and Self Regulating
         • 18 ounces and 3 inches
         • Corrosion Resistant over 100 hours of salt spry
         • Built in Pressure Relief

2 - 11.5 psi hmmm i guess i read the specs off a different one?   and 1.6 amp average... thats not too bad.  i guess the problem with this pump, is that if it ever did lose energy, it could screw things up royally...  i've devised a plan though and will install it later.  it is basically a T before the pump connected to a T after the pump, and a one way check valve in between.  this will allow the injection pump to still suck fuel even if the facet fuel pump loses power, or breaks.  (note built in Anti-Siphon Valve)

[vvandu]

Sorry for late response, i couldnt log onto the site all day!

Unfortunately something came up today, and I couldnt pick up a multimeter to test the GP's... is there any particular one i need to buy?

I tried cutting 1cm off the line returning to the pump, i didnt notice any difference, still doesnt sound like any fuel is getting to the motor.

Also, my glowplug harness does look a little rough, ill take pics tomorrow to see if it needs to be replaced.

Tomorrow night I will get the meter and test the gp's.

So by the sounds of this, glowplugs, and relay are the faults?
If so, i guess ill jsut prepare to replace them for this coming weekend, i dont have much time during the weekday.  Im going to assume the glowplugs ARE eventually going to be replaced, all the symptoms do point towards it; car does run sluggish than before.

Glowplugs arent very expensive, but the relay appears to be quite hefty, any suggestions on where to buy these parts?  Hate the fact im limited for tools, will I be able to reach the glow plugs without removing the injectors .. what do i need :S?  

Jtang is correct, i brought my car to Eurohaus during the summer to have the crankpulley fixed and the nose welded and there hasnt been the slightest issues regarding that (finally)
Jtang you going to hook me up with that bandaid  :lol:  or should i order it myself?

[chemist]

I had hard starting too on my 91 Jetta NA so I rebuilt the injectors by added new nozzles and heat shields.
When I had all the injectors out of the engine I turned on the key to check the glow plugs by looking right through the ports.  To my great surprise I found that the last guy who owned the car had replaced only the two glow plugs you can get to without removing the injector pump and the plugs were quite different.  They are longer and when I turned on the key and peered down the port holes these two only got orange red and the other two got yellow orange.  Perhaps this is why when I crank on a cold day I get one or two cylinders to fire and then after forever I get the others to finally kick in.

So I can suggest this method to check your glow plugs and you might be surprised as I was.  At the same time you could redo your injectors if they are wanting.

I should also say that my glow plug buss bar is in terrible shape but it did not make much difference as the glow plugs themselves.

Short of all this, add a block heater or a coolant heater for cold weather use.

Brad

[Jetta Fan]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think your 50A fuse for the GPs is on the upper left corner of the fuse panel under the dash. That's where it is on my 97 Jetta.

[vvandu]

:evil:  With the help of  a couple dubbers, they both seem to agree that its a fuel issue.  My fuel pump maybe the main source of problem, thx to jtanguay  he helped me put on his little facet fuel pump as a baidaid for now.

THe car ran a little better instantly, no more air bubbles in the lines.

However i have a starting problem that only occurs on the first start, so it was hard to say if the fuel pump did the trick!  And so far i dont think it worked, parking the car for 4 hours later i went out and barely got it to start!.......  (-5C)

Mystery, mystery...  :roll:

[vixentd]

If you have not purchased a multimeter, cycle your glow plus three times without starting, then take your finger and feel around the glow plug. If it is warm it is working, if it is cold it is not.

If you have to replace any, take the bus bar and throw it. Use 4 heavy duty wires with a small bolt to the incoming line. Then next time, you can just use a 12 v test light from the positive of the battery to each lead by undoing the bolt.. If it lights the glow plug is good.  1 minute test.

[James8485]

well my car runs like a top (97 VW 1.9L TD)
you are always going to see a few air bubbles thats ok.......but when you see more air than fuel u have a problem.  i had simm prob and thought same thing! they tolf me thats normal to have a few!  i changed my fuel filter and away i went you would be suprised what a claged fuel filter will cause!